nms gunship
14-11-2011, 11:23 AM
#3
Zee Germans are coming
stage 1 gunship,,
standard engine
4x4 cooler
-31
decent exhaust
i would put an 044 on for piece of mind
and on the road will kill stage 3 cars
its a fantastic set up
stage 3 gunship is different
standard engine
4x4 cooler
-31
decent exhaust
i would put an 044 on for piece of mind
and on the road will kill stage 3 cars
its a fantastic set up
stage 3 gunship is different
14-11-2011, 11:33 AM
#6
Zee Germans are coming
14-11-2011, 11:38 AM
#7
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I've had it Paul, cracking conversion, mine was on 803s though, Stage 2 TT T3 and 4x4 Cooler with -31, fuel pump and away you go, mine made 310bhp but nearly 350lb/ft..
it'll suprise how quick it is, VERY responsive too. Have it live mapped if you can rather than chip aswell Paul.
it'll suprise how quick it is, VERY responsive too. Have it live mapped if you can rather than chip aswell Paul.
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14-11-2011, 11:42 AM
#9
its a great package, but ultimatley the reason the boost has to tail off under load is because the injectors are to small. Fitting larger ones means you will have much more ability with the fuelling,
T3 Turbochargers are ideally suited to 803 greens, because you can fuel the turbo absolutley on its knees.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 11:51 AM.
14-11-2011, 11:49 AM
#11
Zee Germans are coming
mr norris may be able to answer that one
14-11-2011, 11:52 AM
#12
its impossible!
if the engines are the same, there is no way in the world the car with std injectors would be better in anyway over a well mapped 803s car, bacause ultimatley you can do EXCATLY the same mid range on 803s, but not tail the boost off.
if the engines are the same, there is no way in the world the car with std injectors would be better in anyway over a well mapped 803s car, bacause ultimatley you can do EXCATLY the same mid range on 803s, but not tail the boost off.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 05:56 PM.
14-11-2011, 11:58 AM
#14
the injectors have no influence on boost whatsoever in relation to the terms you are talking about. as long as the mapping is good it will perform low down exactly the same.
The gunship will no doubt make more power/torque than a normal stage 1, but if its power your after, than the best option by far is to fit larger injectors.
The gunship will no doubt make more power/torque than a normal stage 1, but if its power your after, than the best option by far is to fit larger injectors.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 12:28 PM.
14-11-2011, 12:14 PM
#16
Zee Germans are coming
14-11-2011, 02:44 PM
#19
If the "stage 3" car is setup with the same boost, it will be exactly the same lower down, but with more power up top.
The gunship conversion is a good option if you are concours obsessive and need your injectors to stay the same colour, but its certainly not got any performance advantage over fitting better injectors!
The gunship conversion is a good option if you are concours obsessive and need your injectors to stay the same colour, but its certainly not got any performance advantage over fitting better injectors!
14-11-2011, 03:38 PM
#21
Ive been onto Karl to get my saff setup. Nothing was mentioned about fuel pressure. Im after a stage 3 gunship, with T34.48 greens and 3bar map and was qouted 340bhp and 370lb/ft torque in the mid range. 30psi tailing off to 20psi at high revs.
14-11-2011, 03:43 PM
#22
Again, if running a T34, i`d prefer and advise to go to 55lb injectors, then you can run the turbo flat out,
My T34.48 made 370bhp and 420lb/ft.
Greens are too small for a T34 imo thats why the boost has to tail off,
and the 55s are cheaper.
It just seems a better idea to fit bigger injectors that allow you to fuel the turbo to death if you want to, then you know your safe and you can do what you want with the boost.
My personal opinion is as a rule never have a Turbocharger that can outflow the injectors, just for safety.
If you had a boost control failure on a T34 with greens it would end in tears! on 55s you may not even notice the difference
Thats not saying what Karl does is wrong, or dangerous, im sure it works well, the package has great reviews, but im sure given the chance even Karl would prefer to fit injectors that are more suitable.
My T34.48 made 370bhp and 420lb/ft.
Greens are too small for a T34 imo thats why the boost has to tail off,
and the 55s are cheaper.
It just seems a better idea to fit bigger injectors that allow you to fuel the turbo to death if you want to, then you know your safe and you can do what you want with the boost.
My personal opinion is as a rule never have a Turbocharger that can outflow the injectors, just for safety.
If you had a boost control failure on a T34 with greens it would end in tears! on 55s you may not even notice the difference
Thats not saying what Karl does is wrong, or dangerous, im sure it works well, the package has great reviews, but im sure given the chance even Karl would prefer to fit injectors that are more suitable.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 04:17 PM.
14-11-2011, 04:16 PM
#23
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Again, if running a T34, i`d prefer and advise to go to 55lb injectors, then you can run the turbo flat out,
My T34.48 made 370bhp and 420lb/ft.
Greens are too small for a T34 imo thats why the boost has to tail off,
and the 55s are cheaper.
It just seems a better idea to fit bigger injectors that allow you to fuel the turbo to death if you want to, then you know your safe and you can do what you want with the boost.
My personal opinion is as a rule never have a Turbocharger that can outflow the injectors, just for safety.
If you had a boost control failure on a T34 with greens it would end in tears! on 55s you may not even notice the difference
Thats not saying what Karl does is wrong, or dangerous, im sure it works well, thae package has great reviews, but im sure given the chance even Karl would prefer to fit injectors that are more suitable.
My T34.48 made 370bhp and 420lb/ft.
Greens are too small for a T34 imo thats why the boost has to tail off,
and the 55s are cheaper.
It just seems a better idea to fit bigger injectors that allow you to fuel the turbo to death if you want to, then you know your safe and you can do what you want with the boost.
My personal opinion is as a rule never have a Turbocharger that can outflow the injectors, just for safety.
If you had a boost control failure on a T34 with greens it would end in tears! on 55s you may not even notice the difference
Thats not saying what Karl does is wrong, or dangerous, im sure it works well, thae package has great reviews, but im sure given the chance even Karl would prefer to fit injectors that are more suitable.
I want that...^^^^^......
14-11-2011, 04:55 PM
#27
I guess another way of looking at it is if you fitted as an example a ported head, and gained 5% in VE, if your injectors are already to small, what are you going to do? Turn the boost DOWN so they can cope? kind of makes this 5% you have found in VE pointless.
The key would be to have extra fuelling available, so you can add some more.
There is nothing at all wrong with increasing fuel pressure as long as the increase is sensible, I've seen some crazy base pressures all of our stuff uses the factory base pressure, so people can still follow the workshop manual.
The key would be to have extra fuelling available, so you can add some more.
There is nothing at all wrong with increasing fuel pressure as long as the increase is sensible, I've seen some crazy base pressures
all of our stuff uses the factory base pressure, so people can still follow the workshop manual.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 05:00 PM.
14-11-2011, 05:04 PM
#30
Martin, I got that
I was answering Mat 
14-11-2011, 05:12 PM
#31
i think everyone knows money isn't freely available,thats why we never complete any work without the customers go ahead. but that should never stop someone being given the best advise possible.
If someone asks what injectors are best for the spec they have, i will tell them.
when people say "I'm fitting greens when it gets mapped", to me gives the possibility they do not have them fitted yet or even own them.
In those circumstances i would advise the best injectors possible.
in that case if they needed new 803s, or new 55s, i would also be saving them money by advising the 55s.
and since when have saving money and cosworth ever made sense Ł250 will mean you can make even more power, and power for the Ł, Ł250 isn't too much at all imo.
If someone asks what injectors are best for the spec they have, i will tell them.
when people say "I'm fitting greens when it gets mapped", to me gives the possibility they do not have them fitted yet or even own them.
In those circumstances i would advise the best injectors possible.
in that case if they needed new 803s, or new 55s, i would also be saving them money by advising the 55s.
and since when have saving money and cosworth ever made sense
Ł250 will mean you can make even more power, and power for the Ł, Ł250 isn't too much at all imo.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 05:18 PM.
14-11-2011, 05:26 PM
#32
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The gunship stage 1 is fantastic, i had one on a 4x4 that had done 145000 miles, it was so quick, i think it is quicker than most stage 3's because it is mapped so well where as others are not as good mapped, i can say it was quicker than any stage 3 mapped cars i had!!!! As said the theory is put larger injectors in and yes get more power longer, but you need to know how to map the way mr norris does, he is a genius and can make a stage one quicker than other tuners stage 3's!
14-11-2011, 05:29 PM
#33
Maybe thats because Karl has them in for live mapping, because of the method the gunship uses would be a little risky to fire out off the shelf.so the mapping doesn't have to have the safety margins built in to it.
where as most other tuners don't get asked to live map that sort of spec, but simply fit off the shelf chips?
I've not live mapped a stage 1 - 3 car since I've been at MSD.
if someone asked us to live map them a 30psi spike in boost on a T34 803s car, of course we could do it, but i wouldn't advise it, id rather fit bigger injectors, and thats the point I'm making. it all just seems a little backwards.
I could understand it to a point back in the day, where 403s would idle at 9% co, and cruise at 10:1 AFR,so there was a reason not to use them but these days we can use bigger injectors and there are no downsides at all.
where as most other tuners don't get asked to live map that sort of spec, but simply fit off the shelf chips?
I've not live mapped a stage 1 - 3 car since I've been at MSD.
if someone asked us to live map them a 30psi spike in boost on a T34 803s car, of course we could do it, but i wouldn't advise it, id rather fit bigger injectors, and thats the point I'm making. it all just seems a little backwards.
I could understand it to a point back in the day, where 403s would idle at 9% co, and cruise at 10:1 AFR,so there was a reason not to use them but these days we can use bigger injectors and there are no downsides at all.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 14-11-2011 at 05:53 PM.
14-11-2011, 06:13 PM
#34
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I dont think Karl does many off the shelf maps, as far as i am aware you take your car there to be mapped, hence as you say James why they are so good. He supplied me with custom maps to my spec and boy i was equally impressed though, but he wont normally do this i dont think.
