Kelv

iTrader: (4)

obviously one for Stu, but hopefully someone can shed some light please.

just trying to understand the principle in how it works


Example: if i were to take the misses clio 182 Cup into an Evo Chips dealer, they would then plug the relevant handset into her car to copy the file, would it effect anything if the operator chose a different model clio than the one he was sitting in?

meaning, if the operator were to select an earlier model clio as a 172 option, when the file is uploaded to the Evolution chips database, would it then be returned with the correct upgraded file for the car being the 182, or a file which had been selected under the 172?


im trying to understand if it would make a difference as to what car he actualy selected within the handset, or does the main database at Stu's end work out the correct car that the file had been taken from or does it trust the operator which has uploaded it?


Cheers.

BigErn

http://www.fastchip.nl/

http://www.fastchip.nl/index.php?pag...mart&Itemid=26

Ive used one of them on a Clio 172 cup and was very impressed with it. It was a couple of years ago when they first came out and it has apparently been developed a lot more now. Maybe worth looking into?

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

fast chip isnt the most reliable

Kelv call stu if i was you but you will find that the file that the retailer takes out of the car wil have all the correct rom data needed to not mess it up

i have sent loads of our customers to alex our local evolution chips dealer and everyone said how happy they were with the chip and the service ! so can not rate them enough

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

Jay Buddy, i dont want to create waves, just trying to suss out the way it works.

i already took the car to a local place about 2 weeks back, he copied the file from the car and selected an early 172 car on the handset, when i questioned it i was told that it doesnt really matter what car its selected as as only the correct file will come back.

ok, benefit of the doubt as have no idea how it works.

2 - 3 hours later and we were still standing there with the car waiting for the new file to come back from the Evo Database by which time its now heading way thru the saturday afternoon and im told that the main database up a Stu's will now be shut until monday, so i should bring the car back monday/tuesday to have it finished off, and that the car will be fine to drive.

anyway, i couldnt go back on that day due to being out of the country etc.

but while driving home the car felt flat and horrid, almost lathargic so it had my mind wondering if it was down to he selecting something wrong.
even the misses says the car now feels gutless and doesnt want to move

im now just a bit reluctant to go back incase we end up with a modded file being put on the car for a different model, so thought id just ask a couple of questions before i make the trip.

as they say, easier to ask first and make sure


im more than happy to have the Evo chip on the car, many of the clio boys have said it works well, Chip and Tank Mike etc.
i just want to ensure its going to be the correct file for the car.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

id say you have no worries as Kenny will see what romdata it is as it will be coded to a 182 rom

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

Cheers Jay.

TA the weekend?

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

ooohyhhh yes

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Kelv.

The process is this:

Installer reads the file from your car, to do this he needs to select the correct protocol off the handset so that it knows how to read the file.
The file then goes to headquarters in blackpool.
They modifiy YOUR file, and they send it back again.
Then the installer installs the new file.

The act of reading the file off wont effect the car in anyway at all, it is literally just taking a copy of the file in its raw format, if the protocol selected was the wrong one then it might end up wrongly annotated although I would expect Kenny to spot it when he is doing it TBH, I've sent him a file before by selecting the protocol by number rather than by model type (yes im sad enough I knew the protocol number off the top of my head ) so it arrived at him with no model information on it and he phoned me up for further details.

In the box when we send the files off to Kenny in the first place we have the ability to write in them any info required about the car, so if he put in there "its a 182 but 172 was the only protocol I could find listed" or similar then Kenny will either be able to do it or not depending on if the file is compatible, but he wouldnt send something back that would mess up your car.

The early 172 F4R was normal throttle cable and the later ones were fly by wire, so I would imagine that the map would be visibly different to kenny and he'll spot that in an instant and call the installer if he has put it through as a 172.

Why the hell didnt you use Tank Mike in the first place as installer though, he's done loads of these cars and would have given you a mates rate discount as well Im sure!

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

The dealer would have simply taken a copy of the flash file, not made any changes to it, so there is no reason whatsoever for it to have driven differently afterwards,
ie if you were to copy a cd, the original would still sound just the same afterwards.

The dealer selecting make/model, is simply choosing the correct protocol to read the ecu file with.

Edit, damm chipper

Chip

iTrader: (3)

IIRC those just fire a generic map onto it, complete with totally removed immobiliser information, not what I would be doing!
They dont use a stabilised power supply during the write either like an evolutions chip dealer will, so the risk of bricking the ECU is much higher.

I dare say they generally work to give gains though when it goes to plan, so im not saying its useless

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Too slow

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

it was done at a nice price by another guy i new as a mate many moons ago, but saying that i havent paid him as yet as he said to pay when the job was completed.
we happened to be at his place when he was doing some work on another mates car, spoke of having the chip within the small talk, he quoted a price to me so i said yes.

i guess if i dont take her car back to him then he will be charged by Stu for the file?



as for her car being a little flat, i can happily put that down to coincidence, no problem with that atall, it just raised a fear in my mind that something was amiss.

BigErn

Ive only done a few cars with them at peoples requests, ie turning up at my door with the kit and basically saying "help" . Ive had no issues with any of them and no one has passed any negative comments. I havent looked further into them so cant comment on their reliability, but I know you know what you're on about Jay so Ill take your word for it.


Ive no doubt Stu's chips/maps will be a better product all round though.

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

James, cheers for the input buddy

i do now understand the method in how it works, and i have no intention of causing any problems, i was just trying to confirm in my own mind how it works or if i was right to be worried about anything.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

He will be charged but there is a money back guarentee if you arent happy which will see him get his money back as well.

I suspect you are panicing over nothing though, like I said, when Kenny/Stu come to do the map, they'll spot it in an instant its come through on the wrong file, Im sure they get installers make bigger mistakes than that and they sort it out!
They and the installer will also both have a copy of your original file anyway if anything goes even slightly wrong.

You're in good hands mate with evolution chips whatever installer you go with as ultimately we all have the backup of Kenny/Stu.

Not saying that out of any bias either, you know that I always speak my mind and Im being totally straight about it.


Yes mate it will just be co-incidence not a single byte of the software on your ecu has been changed yet!
The installer doesnt have the ability to change anything other than to put the complete file he recieves from evolution chips on it, thats the first time it will have altered and he hasnt done that yet.

My birds 172 goes absolutely flat sometimes when you go to full throttle, not figured out why yet, as its only done it a few times and then I can never reproduce it, no doubt a sensor fault of some sort, want to get it sorted before I evolutions chip it though as obviously the car needs to work in the first place for the remap to work.
Actually I say I cant reproduce it but thats not quite true, I fucking well managed to reproduce the fault when I was overtaking a lorry with a car heading towards us on a single carriageway bit of road in norfolk at the weekend when I was driving it but I was far too busy shitting myself that it wasnt accelerating quick enough to do any sort of analysis

BigErn

As I said, Ive never looked into them Ive just plugged em in and downloaded the generic maps for a few people who didnt know how to do it or were too scared to have a go themselves. Not sure about the immobiliser information.

Evo Chip would be the way Id go too given the choice, I just put it up as a possible option, not knowing the full story of what was going on with his current map.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Chip is totally correct. All he chose is a protocol to READ the ecu. The protocols are listed as cars for obvious reasons. Reading the calibration is as James says, just like copying a CD. No changes are made.
What the installer tells us is pretty irrelevant, it just speeds-up the process if they are accurate. There is a massive difference between Clio 172 and 182 files so we could never miss that anyway, the system wouldn't even let us load them up.

I wonder if he actually booked the car in with us as we don't have a database of generic files like Superchips (IE: You all get the same automated file back from them) we actually do it by hand using your own calibration as a base, which is why we are unique in what we do as we NEVER download older buggy firmware into your car.

The reason I wonder about his appointment, is we aren't open Saturday, so only do it by appointment, and all our installers know this.

Our average recalibration time is about 40mins at the moment.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Kelv, which installer did you use mate as I have spoken to Kenny just now and he isnt aware of any such delays on Saturdays. I would therefore like to look into why you had to wait 3 hrs? Feel free to PM it to me if you like.

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

Stu, ill PM you buddy.
i dont wish any negative feedback or harm come to the company that has tried to do it for me

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thanks Kelv, nobody will get any heat, I just like to make sure all is welll and my customers near and far are being looked after correctly.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Stu, when I did a mate's 330D BMW a few weeks ago on a saturday using my handset I just sent the file off anyway and warned him I would probably have to pop back another day to put it back on, but low and behold when he had finished MOT'ing my car for me (why I went to see him) I figured it was worth a check and sure enough it was done and ready, despite me not calling you guys up to pre-arrange as it was only something we thought of that morning.
Tank Mike was saying that the other day he sent a file off at 9pm just so that it was there waiting the next morning for him, and then when he just thought he would try his luck a couple of hours later it was there waiting for him, so whatever Kenny earns, its not enough for the hours he must put in

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

LOL. I shall consider that comment very carefully when we revise our trade file prices next Xmas. Your company name will be duly thanked right next to any file increase news in our annual end of year news letter of course.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

is it the same principal for cossie webber ECU's??

eg on my car say i wanted a good 350/350 package with a decent cruise map for fuel economy...

he would copy the file off the current ecu, modify/replace the relevant sections of my file, burn it to a new eeprom then send it back??

I ask as on my car i have ALS strategy which from what i understand is completely different tables and values to the standard map and hence if i was to modify the standard map the ALS should be left as was???

I ask as i was under the impression that with MSD products ALL previous data is deleted so in effect id loose my ALS if i had the car worked on and to get back to the place i was before, id have to buy the MSD ALS.

Obviously i dont want to spend out an extra Ł350 to get back something i already have....

Is that the case or have i misread it???

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Warren, if MSD do your chip, it will keep all those bits, if some other mapper does it though they will find it is encrypted and that they have to start from their own basemap which doesnt have those bits on it.

Very different setup TBH to a modern car with an ODB2 port like this thread is discussing, call Stu for the best way to upgrade yours.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes I suppose I did forget somewhat just who actually pays Kenny in reality

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

oh ok, although no one seems to have had any difficulty reading/accessing my ECU to see whats going on.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Depends if they had a way around the encryption or not, or even if it was present, ive got an MSD chip that doesnt have encrpytion for example, so do and some dont, though all the ALS etc ones would though TBH

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

AFAIK mine being based on a pectel board only has pectel encryption. Unless someone has used a password like 1234 or something Tony turbo was able to read it fine as was luke at EP.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

What ECU and Whos ALS program is it?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

P8 and AFAIK it was a terry drury chip originally (including ALS strategy) which from what i understand is terry drury used all copys of fords motorsport stuff.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Ah, not one of mine then so yes, you would lose it if you used mine as we dont even use the P8 Pectel ALS board that you have so you would take that out and sell it.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

LOL

Well that explains why it didnt seem to fit the profile of what I would expect from an MSD L8 then

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

but thats the point, i dont want to loose the ALS i have as its fine for my needs.

What doesnt make sense to me is when the map has been tweeked before they just took out the old eeprom, put on the emulator thingy, did the mapping, saved to new eeprom then put it back to normal, with the original ALS board in place.

Is that a wrong way to do it then?? or is it just a company policy you dont work with pectel boards??? (a bit like reyland only map L8, sheady only does autronic etc).