General Car Related Discussion. To discuss anything that is related to cars and automotive technology that doesnt naturally fit into another forum catagory.

drivetrain losses article interesting read

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 29-04-2011, 04:27 PM
  #1  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default drivetrain losses article interesting read

http://www.rri.se/function/functiond...pe=whitepapers

just download this white paper pdf, it wont let me link my downloaded file ?
Old 29-04-2011, 04:59 PM
  #2  
stevieturbo
C**t
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 7,921
Received 259 Likes on 238 Posts
Default

What's to read though ? Guestimated flywheel figures are pointless. The UK will catch on eventually.
Old 29-04-2011, 05:07 PM
  #3  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stevieturbo
What's to read though ? Guestimated flywheel figures are pointless. The UK will catch on eventually.
lol i knew youd pipe up

just actual test done to see the real losses, i find it interesting anyways
Old 29-04-2011, 05:13 PM
  #4  
stevieturbo
C**t
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 7,921
Received 259 Likes on 238 Posts
Default

And it also states how pointless the "coastdown" method some RR's use to guesstimate transmission losses.

Pointless because there is no load applied through any of the drivetrain.
Old 29-04-2011, 05:19 PM
  #5  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stevieturbo
And it also states how pointless the "coastdown" method some RR's use to guesstimate transmission losses.

Pointless because there is no load applied through any of the drivetrain.
yes as i said it is a proper interesting report on it. rototest dont do flywheel figures just hub. average loss in there tests of 9% hp 7% lbft are a much more realistic reduction imo
Old 30-04-2011, 08:40 AM
  #6  
mattxr3i
PassionFord Regular
 
mattxr3i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South West
Posts: 479
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

hub, so no tyres to absorb power, so yes 9% sounds reasonable
Old 30-04-2011, 09:23 AM
  #7  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mattxr3i
hub, so no tyres to absorb power, so yes 9% sounds reasonable
i think its reasonable also but what doesnt seem reasonable is another 9% just for tyre to roller friction. rollers add around 18% ?
Old 30-04-2011, 10:51 AM
  #8  
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
iTrader: (3)
 
dojj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Little India
Posts: 50,018
Received 258 Likes on 221 Posts
Default

was reading a very old issue of peformance ford and they reckoned that ford quoted transmission losses of 34% on their 4wd cars
Old 30-04-2011, 11:10 AM
  #9  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dojj
was reading a very old issue of peformance ford and they reckoned that ford quoted transmission losses of 34% on their 4wd cars
id guess that was to try and cover up the fact that cars made less than quoted power, was it about the xr4x4 ? im sure ive read they never made the quoted power.
Old 30-04-2011, 11:39 AM
  #10  
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
iTrader: (3)
 
dojj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Little India
Posts: 50,018
Received 258 Likes on 221 Posts
Default

it was an article about the dohc 4x4 sierra, i'll dig it out again if i can find it

there was another one where exciting figures were a bit dismal compared to today, i think it was the same car that was supposed to have a chassis that was only capable of handling 150 brake
Old 30-04-2011, 12:27 PM
  #11  
Stu @ M Developments
PassionFords Creator



iTrader: (12)
 
Stu @ M Developments's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Blackpool, UK Destination: Rev limiter
Posts: 28,824
Received 95 Likes on 76 Posts
Default

Anyone interested in such things may also be interested in an article I wrote some time ago about Dyno's.

Link here.
Old 30-04-2011, 12:34 PM
  #12  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

something else i have read is that the losses are not linear. they get higher as speed increases upto a maximum of 17% but at slow speeds can be as low as 5%.
i see coastdown is utter bolloxs because of the simple fact that its being measured with no turning force applied to it.
Old 30-04-2011, 01:00 PM
  #13  
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
iTrader: (3)
 
dojj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Little India
Posts: 50,018
Received 258 Likes on 221 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stu's article
CAN TRUE TRANSMISSION LOSS EVER BE MEASURED?
Yes, and it’s actually very easy. Whip the engine out and measure its power on an accurate engine dyno, install it back in the car and run it again on your chosen accurate chassis dyno. Use the power at the wheels figure only and subtract one from the other. Hey presto, pretty accurate transmission losses.
it would be so easy to run an engine hooked up to a box on a dyno and sort this once and for all
Old 02-05-2011, 08:56 AM
  #14  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

this seems to be the most comman system used

http://wzeu.search-results.com/r?t=p...dynocalc.shtml

my thoughts are probably yes it is accurate as working out peak power but over inflates the earlier curve of power figures.
Old 02-05-2011, 09:34 AM
  #15  
dojj
Resident Wrestling Legend
iTrader: (3)
 
dojj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Little India
Posts: 50,018
Received 258 Likes on 221 Posts
Default

if you simply quote atw figures it eliminates everything else from the equation, such as guesswork
Old 02-05-2011, 09:39 AM
  #16  
scoooby slayer
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
 
scoooby slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: st neots cambridgeshire
Posts: 10,211
Received 415 Likes on 308 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dojj
if you simply quote atw figures it eliminates everything else from the equation, such as guesswork
ive got that many now im not bothered where they are

it justs interests me, certain drive trains with specific oil in will have the same power draw.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mark94
Ford Mondeo Including ST
5
10-10-2023 06:52 PM
jameswrx
Modellers Corner.
17
09-10-2015 08:26 PM
nicodinho
Ford Non RS / XR / ST parts for sale.
6
07-10-2015 12:56 PM
Iain Mac
General Car Related Discussion.
7
30-09-2015 09:39 PM
Fudgey
General Car Related Discussion.
21
30-09-2015 06:19 PM



Quick Reply: drivetrain losses article interesting read



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:38 AM.