E46 M3's prices
#41
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I lost my Ford blinkers after I lost 4k on a Saph in 4weeks because it didn't like being driven hard. ( Maybe thats T4 power for you lol )
Since then I've had a few cool cars and a few shit ones - I admit none were as fast as my Saph and none had quite the grin factor and none destroyed all comers with such ease and amusement .... but an M3 is a nice car and now I'd just like a quick nice car (with added RWD)
Since then I've had a few cool cars and a few shit ones - I admit none were as fast as my Saph and none had quite the grin factor and none destroyed all comers with such ease and amusement .... but an M3 is a nice car and now I'd just like a quick nice car (with added RWD)
#43
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#44
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i used to torture m3's when they 1st came out when i had my stage 1 saph. In reality i was probably trying to race someone who was more bothered about some 20 year old knobhead pebble dashing the front of his 40k car than someone wanting to prove there new 40k car was quicker than a 5k sierra lol
#45
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What I meant was, you can tell a lot from the info you get from a time slip. For example, if you take one car known to do 13.5@120mph on the 1/4 mile and another car that does a 12.9@105mph over the same distance... if we assume all variables are equal and they both line up next to each other at 40mph and gun it, then I'd back the car which managed to pull the higher terminal speed rather than the one which ran the lower time when I'm sure a lot of people would automatically pick the lower time because it 'sounds' faster.
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Cheers,
Grant
#46
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What are you? 19 years old?
Where "its at" if you want to test a performance car is well away from the road, otherwise how do you factor out the variables.
Where "its at" for the M3s on the last RS trackday we did was lapping consistently with no issues, unlike the saffs that failed to complete the morning session!
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
You keep your council estate car!
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#47
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Where its at is on the road?
What are you? 19 years old?
Where "its at" if you want to test a performance car is well away from the road, otherwise how do you factor out the variables.
Where "its at" for the M3s on the last RS trackday we did was lapping consistently with no issues, unlike the saffs that failed to complete the morning session!![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
You keep your council estate car!![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
What are you? 19 years old?
Where "its at" if you want to test a performance car is well away from the road, otherwise how do you factor out the variables.
Where "its at" for the M3s on the last RS trackday we did was lapping consistently with no issues, unlike the saffs that failed to complete the morning session!
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
You keep your council estate car!
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
#48
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no im 33 and you carnt tell me being into fast cars when your out on a sunny sunday you dont have the odd play with other cars if u say no u are talking shit this is called in gear! as u dont flag each other down and start off the line lol as for the saffs that failed on the track day you were at thats called not built very well! mine has been very reliable ![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
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The biggest problem in judging whats quicker is who you are racing not what car. Hondas are a prime example of this and people think they beat a civic type r in a fiesta xr2 cause the person in the honda just wont rev the thing. Even more so relevent when it comes to racing bikes aswell
#49
cossie fan (unluckerly)
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how many trackdays have you done in yours?
The biggest problem in judging whats quicker is who you are racing not what car. Hondas are a prime example of this and people think they beat a civic type r in a fiesta xr2 cause the person in the honda just wont rev the thing. Even more so relevent when it comes to racing bikes aswell
The biggest problem in judging whats quicker is who you are racing not what car. Hondas are a prime example of this and people think they beat a civic type r in a fiesta xr2 cause the person in the honda just wont rev the thing. Even more so relevent when it comes to racing bikes aswell
#50
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I came to Dundee recently and got 31 mpg doign 70-80 on the dualler.
Normally on the trip comp, pre winter was 26-27 mpg, winter down to 19-21.
I expect 300 miles. Maybe 270.
I'm bored of nobbers taking the piss who like to slag a car they can't afford/just want to hate because it's cool to do so
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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#51
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I dont want to turn this into a which is faster thing mate im just talking about in general on the road in not slateing m3s there very nice cars just dont do it for me enough to make me want to buy one the other guy just pissed me off the way he came across saffs are cheap and m3s are faster when its saff are going up in price and m3s are going down and a 350+ cosworth is much faster!
M3's arent the best cars on the planet but there a thousand tims better than a 20 year old sierra, only a retard would say different.
#53
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G man, 63 litres and you can do the maths on current fuel price as I have been away 4 weeks. I use Normal unleaded.
I came to Dundee recently and got 31 mpg doign 70-80 on the dualler.
Normally on the trip comp, pre winter was 26-27 mpg, winter down to 19-21.
I expect 300 miles. Maybe 270.
Correct, correct, correct!
I'm bored of nobbers taking the piss who like to slag a car they can't afford/just want to hate because it's cool to do so![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
I came to Dundee recently and got 31 mpg doign 70-80 on the dualler.
Normally on the trip comp, pre winter was 26-27 mpg, winter down to 19-21.
I expect 300 miles. Maybe 270.
Correct, correct, correct!
I'm bored of nobbers taking the piss who like to slag a car they can't afford/just want to hate because it's cool to do so
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
#54
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rememebr as well turo cars FEEL a lot faster.
my m3 feels dog slow flat out, boringly slow infact, but i know full well it aint!
my m3 feels dog slow flat out, boringly slow infact, but i know full well it aint!
#55
cossie fan (unluckerly)
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in a straight line yes bt probably not by as much as you think. Throw in a few corners and the m3 would be ahead by an embarressing amount.
M3's arent the best cars on the planet but there a thousand tims better than a 20 year old sierra, only a retard would say different.
M3's arent the best cars on the planet but there a thousand tims better than a 20 year old sierra, only a retard would say different.
Last edited by ajamesc; 22-03-2011 at 04:53 PM.
#56
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They are both good cars, ones just more exclusive than the other
I woulden't sell my Cosworth for one, the E46 IS NOT an exclusive car anymore, they are plenty of them and they are now affordable cars now, which is what this very thread highlights, in the same way as a Cosworth is.
However running them is not, people don't realise this, which is why you see so many bodged Cosworths as people can't afford to run them, they then get moved on and the unsuspecting buyer gets lumbered with the problems, they then get hailed as unreliable when that in fact that is rubbish, looked after correctly I would say they are more reliable than cars of today!
In the not so distant future I can see M3's being the same, as they attract the what was Cosworth generation!
Martin
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However running them is not, people don't realise this, which is why you see so many bodged Cosworths as people can't afford to run them, they then get moved on and the unsuspecting buyer gets lumbered with the problems, they then get hailed as unreliable when that in fact that is rubbish, looked after correctly I would say they are more reliable than cars of today!
In the not so distant future I can see M3's being the same, as they attract the what was Cosworth generation!
Martin
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comparing an old saff to an m3 is just stupid.
its like comparing a dragster to a r35 gtr!!
technology changes and trying to compare a modified old car to a standard newer car screams of blinkers on both sides of the arguement.
Is a saff any good, well its a 4 seater saloon with outdated suspension and a simple turbocharged twincam engine, nothing special, just has a following in england.
Is a m3 any good, well again its just a 2/4 seater, better suspension setup and build quality but parts can be a little dearer, is it as tuneable as YB engine, well yes it is, it will cost more but will be able to make more power than a YB if required.
Normally these 2 vehicles would never be compared as they are sold to different people.
But since the price of them is coming down its bringing them into the sierra price bracket at which point people who could only have a saph now move onto an M3.
Which do i think is better?
Well for 5k the saff would be a bit of fun, cant handle for toffee and you can barely get any rubber on, but if you like sideways action off your roundabouts, its easy and simple fun.
If you spending 8k-10k on an m3 you will recieve a much better handling car, nicer interior and build quality, you will be a little slower in a straight line but faster through the corners so you would have to decide if you happy with that, if not you can tune them to around 350-360 to help this out, or turbo it to show anything a clean pair of heels in a straight line.
personally ive had a saph, would i have one again, not after driving vehicles that actually handle nope, put a saph owner in something rwd that handles and it will open your eyes.
would i have a m3, well as a daily driver yes because its a nice place to fit, its nippy(not fast) and isnt to bad through the corners(im not saying a m3 handles mint)
I really think people should not:
a) come on and moan about m3s because a stage 3 cosworth is a bit quicker in a straight line.
b) try and argue about it because its a ford forum so not everyone will be unbiased.
I agree with martin aswell, cheap performance attracts alot of people........cosworths, subarus, m3s........people moan that theres loads of m3s around, it will have been the same 15yrs ago with cosworths and im sure in 10-15yrs time we will all be praising the 'working mans' performance car...e46 m3......look at the e36 m3 as an example of this, cheap motor
its like comparing a dragster to a r35 gtr!!
technology changes and trying to compare a modified old car to a standard newer car screams of blinkers on both sides of the arguement.
Is a saff any good, well its a 4 seater saloon with outdated suspension and a simple turbocharged twincam engine, nothing special, just has a following in england.
Is a m3 any good, well again its just a 2/4 seater, better suspension setup and build quality but parts can be a little dearer, is it as tuneable as YB engine, well yes it is, it will cost more but will be able to make more power than a YB if required.
Normally these 2 vehicles would never be compared as they are sold to different people.
But since the price of them is coming down its bringing them into the sierra price bracket at which point people who could only have a saph now move onto an M3.
Which do i think is better?
Well for 5k the saff would be a bit of fun, cant handle for toffee and you can barely get any rubber on, but if you like sideways action off your roundabouts, its easy and simple fun.
If you spending 8k-10k on an m3 you will recieve a much better handling car, nicer interior and build quality, you will be a little slower in a straight line but faster through the corners so you would have to decide if you happy with that, if not you can tune them to around 350-360 to help this out, or turbo it to show anything a clean pair of heels in a straight line.
personally ive had a saph, would i have one again, not after driving vehicles that actually handle nope, put a saph owner in something rwd that handles and it will open your eyes.
would i have a m3, well as a daily driver yes because its a nice place to fit, its nippy(not fast) and isnt to bad through the corners(im not saying a m3 handles mint)
I really think people should not:
a) come on and moan about m3s because a stage 3 cosworth is a bit quicker in a straight line.
b) try and argue about it because its a ford forum so not everyone will be unbiased.
I agree with martin aswell, cheap performance attracts alot of people........cosworths, subarus, m3s........people moan that theres loads of m3s around, it will have been the same 15yrs ago with cosworths and im sure in 10-15yrs time we will all be praising the 'working mans' performance car...e46 m3......look at the e36 m3 as an example of this, cheap motor
Last edited by turbotoaster; 22-03-2011 at 06:18 PM.
#58
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The Sierra has 5 seats, everything else you say is true though, but not everythings about speed, things like how you personally feel, I personally like to feel the car for example and with a M3 I just woulden't feel the same way, with all it's electronic bits but then thats modern cars for you.
The reason for the Saphs introduction was to compete with the M3 and Mercedes market, where it succeeded, it outshone them in every respect whilst also being faster and cheaper I am obviously talking E30, but as you say it's stupid to even compare the E46 which naturally being newer is far more advanced!
Martin
The reason for the Saphs introduction was to compete with the M3 and Mercedes market, where it succeeded, it outshone them in every respect whilst also being faster and cheaper I am obviously talking E30, but as you say it's stupid to even compare the E46 which naturally being newer is far more advanced!
Martin
#59
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I hate the way BMW owners think they are above everyone, comments like PON's do them no favours at all, and makes you look like a stuck up cunt
. And I own a BMW, and 2 Cosworths...
Anyone who knows anything about cars knows just why Cosworths have such a huge following, look across the spectrum of owners, from the 19 year old lad in his first 4k saff, to the millionaire enthuisiast who has an RS 500 , 3 door or Escort Cos (porkie, Car collector etc) who have owned or do own them.
The beauty of them is the racing & rallying heratige they have, and the simplicity of working on them, coupled with easy and relativly inexpensive upgrades to make a very,very fast car for sensible money. Add in the pure 80's thumping turbo power delivery, and you have a car that is great fun, and very fast.
An M3 is a totally different kettle of fish, fantastic car, sublime handling,quick, but not as exciting IMHO as a well tuned turbo car, it is simply playing a different game .. And I have driven plenty of them!
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Anyone who knows anything about cars knows just why Cosworths have such a huge following, look across the spectrum of owners, from the 19 year old lad in his first 4k saff, to the millionaire enthuisiast who has an RS 500 , 3 door or Escort Cos (porkie, Car collector etc) who have owned or do own them.
The beauty of them is the racing & rallying heratige they have, and the simplicity of working on them, coupled with easy and relativly inexpensive upgrades to make a very,very fast car for sensible money. Add in the pure 80's thumping turbo power delivery, and you have a car that is great fun, and very fast.
An M3 is a totally different kettle of fish, fantastic car, sublime handling,quick, but not as exciting IMHO as a well tuned turbo car, it is simply playing a different game .. And I have driven plenty of them!
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Last edited by RWD_cossie_wil; 22-03-2011 at 07:15 PM.
#60
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FFS I really am pi$$ing myself laughing here at some of the replys on this thread.
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Is the M3 expensive to run? hmmmm, i dont see it any more expensive than the Evo VII I had. It had 2 clutches, set of brakes and 3 dealer services in one year.
My M3 last year had an Insp II (Ł900) RTAB (Ł30) and an Exhaust mount (Ł35)
year before it had a Vanos filter (Ł7)
Now i do track my cars (hence the clutches in the Evo) but thats what they were built for right?
The Evo did IIRC circa 500 track miles in one year and the M3 probably close to if not over the 1K mark. Feck i done 1500 miles in it 2 weekends ago getting to and doing a track day at Snetterton.
Is it quick?, well it gives most cosworths a good run for their money round a track. 1 or 2 "properly" sorted ones WILL show it a clean pair of heels very quickly but for 99% of them out there its easy money![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Having run Cosworths since 96 and only selling my 3 door about 6 weeks ago it would need to be something pretty special to tempt me back. (White RS500would do it)![](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile11.gif)
Dont get me wrong i love RS's and what they stand for hence the reason i also have a Focus RS but the M3 is also a very affordable great car.
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
Is the M3 expensive to run? hmmmm, i dont see it any more expensive than the Evo VII I had. It had 2 clutches, set of brakes and 3 dealer services in one year.
My M3 last year had an Insp II (Ł900) RTAB (Ł30) and an Exhaust mount (Ł35)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
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Now i do track my cars (hence the clutches in the Evo) but thats what they were built for right?
The Evo did IIRC circa 500 track miles in one year and the M3 probably close to if not over the 1K mark. Feck i done 1500 miles in it 2 weekends ago getting to and doing a track day at Snetterton.
Is it quick?, well it gives most cosworths a good run for their money round a track. 1 or 2 "properly" sorted ones WILL show it a clean pair of heels very quickly but for 99% of them out there its easy money
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Having run Cosworths since 96 and only selling my 3 door about 6 weeks ago it would need to be something pretty special to tempt me back. (White RS500would do it)
![](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile11.gif)
Dont get me wrong i love RS's and what they stand for hence the reason i also have a Focus RS but the M3 is also a very affordable great car.
#61
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.....................and from my point of view ticks the boxes with work and stops then moaning that they're paying me a car allowance to drive round in sheds.
#62
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G man, 63 litres and you can do the maths on current fuel price as I have been away 4 weeks. I use Normal unleaded.
I came to Dundee recently and got 31 mpg doign 70-80 on the dualler.
Normally on the trip comp, pre winter was 26-27 mpg, winter down to 19-21.
I expect 300 miles. Maybe 270.
I came to Dundee recently and got 31 mpg doign 70-80 on the dualler.
Normally on the trip comp, pre winter was 26-27 mpg, winter down to 19-21.
I expect 300 miles. Maybe 270.
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
...that doesn't seem like the end of the world MPG-wise, certainly better than I've managed in Imprezas previously. Plus, although I've only test driven an E46 M3, I think they certainly shift along well.. the 05-plate that I drove really impressed me actually, that was 3 big guys in the car at about 80% commitment given one of the blokes was a nervous salesman.
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Cheers,
Grant
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