Fit for purpose, no point in changing the management etc if it will do what you want it to IMO, eryone is different i guess but i don't see the point in changing something that is perfectly useable and adaptable to most specs.

 

Will, I think that the way that people who dont really understand engines tend to apply logic to things like CR or port size or turbo size or runner length is always the same:

I know adding a little is considered good...
So adding a lot must be great...
and adding far far too much should be perfect for my application!


The phrase "bell curve" doesnt seem to be one they understand!

 

thanks for reply will but 930bhp 7 years ago was a hell of an achievment feck me thats a lot of fuel

 

Yeah, Evo's are 'thirsty' engines in comparison to YB's anyway!

There is so much technology out there currently to aid in the design of engines etc. The future is going to be phenomenal for the tuning scene!

I'm in my second year of my degree now and we're spending approximately 50% of our course time for the next 2 years using a package from Gamma Technologies.

Some of the simulations you can run are truly phenomenal, i've even built base fuel maps for aftermarket ECUs through calculations i've done with the software and it's been sensibly close!

http://www.gtisoft.com/applications/...erformance.php

 

Ah i know a bit chip. and know i dont know what a bell curve is is it similer to a bell end

 

Was that the yellow RC car? Saw it at one of the Donno Xmas track days, looked mental!

 

No mate, 930bhp was the 'old' white RC demo car. Nicknamed 'Bessy'

The yellow one was the one I played a part in building. We did everything we could to take weight out of that car, even down to removing the middle skin of the car!

The yellow one ran a GT42R with a 1.06 back end at around 2.5-3.0bar of boost on methanol. But yes, in summary - 850+ bhp in an 1100kg car = pokey

 

Similar in that they are both named after a bastardised representation of the shape of a traditional church bell originally, but thats about the only thing that springs to mind.



That sort of shape, ie as you start increasing a value for something like CR, it gives you more power then more power then more power, then starts getting less and less and less.

Ie there is an optimum value, and more than it is just as damaging as less than it.

 

C'mon now Rod you ain't getting a 750bhp evo for Ł5k no matter how hard you try. I could have said an enzo is light years ahead, your talking about a completely different level here. I think I'll agree with Glenn and keep the ford blinkers on for a Ł5k car a cossie would be my choice, besides, I bet a 750bhp escort cos would be in with a chance.

 

zetec sam backwards

 

when you look at swedes and other over seas tuning companys i can see where your coming from in the terms bhp and torque figures .

 

People make the assumption that Americans are into their supercharged V8's...some are but they are also at the forefront of tuning the Zetec. I've seen stuff on their cars that I've never seen over here and the development is relentless.

The YB is older than me and I'm falling apart at the seems, if we're stuck in the past it's probably because alot of our tuners only tune a seriously old engine with the restrictive mindset that nothing else is quite the same.

I agree with the O.P's suggestion, we're a long way behind but the new FRS has got British tuners working hard.

 

So they say lol id have said julian godfrey and mark sheed make the best numbers and there bhp and torque is there at low revs and stays right till the end

 

Jenspeed that has done most of the really powerful YB's in Norway for the last decade is working closely with Julian Godfrey and has done so for a really long time. So i do not think it's fair to say that the UK tuners live in the past. Almost every high power YB in Norway, Sweden and England run more or less the same kind of parts. 300-400 bhp cars over here normally uses remapped standard cossie ecus and T34's.... so can't really see the difference there either

Everything is down to what the customers want and how much they are willing to spend..

 

Indeed, if there is a difference at all between the uk and other countries with regards to YB tuning I think its more that people in the UK generally have a lot less money to spend on their car than the sort of swedish cars etc that we see evidence of over here via mags and forums etc.

 

Well... the cars you see in mags are only a few.... not all of them are like that
So the difference is really not that great actually. There are ALOT of cossies over here that is seen a year or two before beeing sold on because breaking down or beeing to expensive for the owners Not a lot of cossies that are prepared like the Reyland Escort for example and perform on a high level year after year...

 

cbp, exactly there is no reason for us to hear about all the 400bhp and below cossies in norway or sweden etc, as its not interesting enough for mags to report on when they can find the same thing so easily at home.

so its not just about a real difference, its merely a perceived one, although I suspect just in terms of the fact that the cars are so much more common over here that there are more of them over here in a lower state of tune as a result. I suspect the base cars are cheaper here too.

Whats a 1992 4wd saph worth other there? Over here it would be about 6K euros or so, and a ropey 2wd is more like 3K euros.

 

My mates saphire cosworth pulled 0-60 in 3.8 a couple of years ago and had a problem with dumpvalve 2010 ford fair running half the boost still pulled a 4.4 0-60 i dont now wot bhp its running but to pull times like that its a acheivement and a half

 

There are not that many for sale these days actually.... there is one atm on Norways biggest sale site... and the asking price is 15500 euros it looks like it is in good condition though

 

Would need to be conours and come with a glovebox full of cocaine to fetch that much money over here mate

So I think by definition its safe to say the average person with a cosworth over there is owning it on a bigger budget than the average owner here (although there will of course be lots of exceptions, im just generalising)

 

Pauls?

Rich

 

Christ! What are 3 Doors fetching?
Rich

 

The timing gear there is intended for a bit of fun between mates etc, rather than to be a particuarly accurate representation as far as im aware, I dont believe its safe to assume its genuinely representative of the exact figures.

 

Well it's not entirely true what you are assuming. The reason for this is, the people with lots of cash to spend on their cars are not driving cossies anymore.. they are driving evos, supras, skyline s and so on...
The cossie is the "poor" mans supercar, at least the Sapphires are. So much of it is done on the cheap as the cars are often driven by youngsters with a harder right foot than they have a big wallet..... Escos and whaletail cossies are proper expensive and fetch over 20000 pounds....... yikes...

 

Thats all the same over here too, just the whole budget in general is shifted downwards as we are poorer than you

 

Right then i'm off to Norway to sell my 3 Door
Rich

 

Tbh Britain is always at the forefront of any design and engineering breakthroughs.as pointed out above there's all sorts of reasons that tuners follow the routes that they do.if it was a lottery win jobbie and you could tell the tuner to just spend whatever on a car then I see no reason why British tuners couldn't get the same bhp out of an engine that any other countries tuners could.

 

Making the peak BHP is the easy bit, most people with half a clue could build a 500bhp yb now just by chucking the right bits at it. The difficult part is making it reliable, responsive & drivable with a large power band.

 

yes mate hows ur 3 dr doing

 

my point is regardless of tuner behind times some of these cars with ybs put down some really good times and track cars even better built by tuners for them selves

 

In response to the origional question, I have seen loads of development on cossie engines using twin scroll GT turbo's, and making good numbers as a result,

The tuners are moving with the times, but customers may not be willing to pay the extra it costs,

plus the old "stages" are set in peoples minds and memories, and many will go from there when thinking about upgrading the power in theor YB.

 

1 person wound up.

 

Rod why dont you stop fooking about with that old sierea of yours and start playing with evos.Ok your sierra looks nice but will it ever got used more than doing just high speed runs?

 

got to love people watching gatebil videos, seeing the race spec 700 plus bhp monsters and thinking that they are in anyway related to a daily or weekend ROAD car!the guys with the big power cossies will be trailering the cars down and giving them a good pasting on track, while their road car is no doubt a nice e46 m3 or the like.
compare top spec track cars in both countries, Harveys escort, Martins escort, Norris Evo, it all compares nicely!
oh and if you think old school DOESNT work,get along to the RSOC day and watch the old Bailey MK2 escort obliterate everything on track with its old school setup!
a t34 std or slightly lower comp engine with 2 bar is a FANTASTIC car to drive on the ROAD.

 

The Bailey Escort was running a full Rs 500 Engine with T4 & 8 injectors last time I saw it?

 

Yes it is as far as im aware too, which very clearly is an example of "living in the past" and yet it still works VERY well

 

Too old mate my Saff will be my last performance car. Im not interested in driving an old Cossie around the Streets anymore that went 5/6 years ago. My only aim is to make my Cossie go as fast as possible & set a speed that will never be beaten. Dont really give a hoot what others think about that its a technical exercise that keeps my old brain working.

 

Yes similar to my Spec 10 years ago as an engine compared to similar Power cars today its terrible really terrible. It would be so much faster with a later Spec engine. A drive in Deanos car would convince you just how far a 550bhp conversion has come. Both have Power but one has grunt & the other dont. I know cos ive driven cars throughout that 10 years of development.

 

why are people not turning to the duratec more for turbo applications?
lack of parts?
sure lots could be done with that engine but it seems to me the zetec is being pushed more in turbo applications and development.

The Bailey Escort is awesome remember seeing it at ford fair a few times ripping past everything on track and getting black flagged lots too

 

Set a speed that won't be beaten eh? I do recall Martin hadland mentioning in the 200mph issue of fast ford "it would be nice to do 220mph" or something along those lines, maybe he has a plan brewing...