Alarm recommendations
29-12-2010, 01:58 PM
#1
Alarm recommendations
Hi,
I am looking into getting another alarm system as my current Clifford takes quite a bit of power, now this one is a full closure alarm so closes windows etc, however I am quite happy to go without this, I really want one that offers maximum security whilst having a low power consumption, what are people's opinions? I am quite tempted by the Toad range.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Martin
I am looking into getting another alarm system as my current Clifford takes quite a bit of power, now this one is a full closure alarm so closes windows etc, however I am quite happy to go without this, I really want one that offers maximum security whilst having a low power consumption, what are people's opinions? I am quite tempted by the Toad range.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Martin
29-12-2010, 04:18 PM
#5
I'd be more interested in who's fitting it, than what they're fitting. A badly fitted alarm will be a pain in the arse no matter what make it is!
I'd personally steer away from one with too many features - IME they're the ones which give the most grief, and most false alarms.
I'd personally steer away from one with too many features - IME they're the ones which give the most grief, and most false alarms.
29-12-2010, 04:31 PM
#6
second what dan says
my alarm was a £400 jobbie, cat one with al the mod cons etc available through gap security
the fitter did his job and i was pleased
until it went wrong, then he fobbed me off with "nothing to do with the alarm that your battery's gone flat/the central locking doesn't work/you can't unlock the car/it won't start/the windows won't go up/the sunfoor has stopped working" etc
subsequent inspections to get it sorted have cost me more than the alarm cost in the first place and it's hit and miss if it works or it doesn't as it's been wired inccorectly
the warranty wasn't worth wiping my arse with either as gap only pass the problem onto the installer and, to be honest, i can't be arsed to chase it up and am quiet happy to simply state that this is an issue and i would like it sorted with the bare minimum of fuss to me
anyway, thats it for the short rant from me
but yes, that toad one came up pretty good on a list a few times now
i still can't unlock the doors with the alarm as it only locks the doors so i've got to disarm the alarm, then use the original ford remote fob to unlock the car
my alarm was a £400 jobbie, cat one with al the mod cons etc available through gap security
the fitter did his job and i was pleased
until it went wrong, then he fobbed me off with "nothing to do with the alarm that your battery's gone flat/the central locking doesn't work/you can't unlock the car/it won't start/the windows won't go up/the sunfoor has stopped working" etc
subsequent inspections to get it sorted have cost me more than the alarm cost in the first place and it's hit and miss if it works or it doesn't as it's been wired inccorectly
the warranty wasn't worth wiping my arse with either as gap only pass the problem onto the installer and, to be honest, i can't be arsed to chase it up and am quiet happy to simply state that this is an issue and i would like it sorted with the bare minimum of fuss to me
anyway, thats it for the short rant from me
but yes, that toad one came up pretty good on a list a few times nowi still can't unlock the doors with the alarm as it only locks the doors so i've got to disarm the alarm, then use the original ford remote fob to unlock the car
29-12-2010, 04:37 PM
#7
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its down to how its fitted everytime! had cliffords on all my cars and my brothers and never ever had any problems! my bro has got window closures and mines got turbo timer, intellistart, shock sensor, glass break sensor and tilt sensor, never have any problems with false alarms or it playing up!
i dont see why power consumption would be an issue tbh? if its draining your batery whilst activated then its either wired in wrong or the batteryback up siren has failed and its constantly drawing power.
i dont see why power consumption would be an issue tbh? if its draining your batery whilst activated then its either wired in wrong or the batteryback up siren has failed and its constantly drawing power.
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29-12-2010, 05:08 PM
#8
Thanks for the replies, the current Clifford I have no problems with although it is heavy on juice, for example I haven't used the car for a couple of weeks and already my battery's down to 11.45V maybe it is just faulty, I do know it's this draining it. Mine to has window closure etc, it's a G4 type. I have always heard that Clifford's draw a lot of power as well.
I have had a new siren on a little while ago so know the battery is fine as on my model it's a common failure!
Martin
I have had a new siren on a little while ago so know the battery is fine as on my model it's a common failure!
Martin
29-12-2010, 06:46 PM
#9
OCD Victim
second what dan says
my alarm was a £400 jobbie, cat one with al the mod cons etc available through gap security
the fitter did his job and i was pleased
until it went wrong, then he fobbed me off with "nothing to do with the alarm that your battery's gone flat/the central locking doesn't work/you can't unlock the car/it won't start/the windows won't go up/the sunfoor has stopped working" etc
subsequent inspections to get it sorted have cost me more than the alarm cost in the first place and it's hit and miss if it works or it doesn't as it's been wired inccorectly
the warranty wasn't worth wiping my arse with either as gap only pass the problem onto the installer and, to be honest, i can't be arsed to chase it up and am quiet happy to simply state that this is an issue and i would like it sorted with the bare minimum of fuss to me
anyway, thats it for the short rant from me but yes, that toad one came up pretty good on a list a few times now
i still can't unlock the doors with the alarm as it only locks the doors so i've got to disarm the alarm, then use the original ford remote fob to unlock the car
my alarm was a £400 jobbie, cat one with al the mod cons etc available through gap security
the fitter did his job and i was pleased
until it went wrong, then he fobbed me off with "nothing to do with the alarm that your battery's gone flat/the central locking doesn't work/you can't unlock the car/it won't start/the windows won't go up/the sunfoor has stopped working" etc
subsequent inspections to get it sorted have cost me more than the alarm cost in the first place and it's hit and miss if it works or it doesn't as it's been wired inccorectly
the warranty wasn't worth wiping my arse with either as gap only pass the problem onto the installer and, to be honest, i can't be arsed to chase it up and am quiet happy to simply state that this is an issue and i would like it sorted with the bare minimum of fuss to me
anyway, thats it for the short rant from me
but yes, that toad one came up pretty good on a list a few times nowi still can't unlock the doors with the alarm as it only locks the doors so i've got to disarm the alarm, then use the original ford remote fob to unlock the car
If it is a Clifford (which I think it is from memory), get it over to me one weekend and we'll get it fixed once and for all.
29-12-2010, 08:57 PM
#10
20K+ Super Poster.
Good point about the install quality, had to re-do 3 in the family that were all approved fitted, was pretty poor.
All alarms will draw power, no reason why cliffys would be any heavier than others, the voltage you quote after 2 weeks of non use sounds good to me.
A few older toads are now starting to have issues due to back up battery leakage, as until 2 years ago they were NI-CD, after some years these leak and spill corrosive contents over the circuit board, or if lucky just go duff.
It is now illegal to use NI-CD, they are NI-MH much better, easy to replace, about £15, the battery back up draws power 100% of the time, a sign of a duff one is usually reverting to base settings and forgetting the stored settings, then total failure to turn off when set off, refusal to arm/disarm.
The original cells were made by VINIC, but I'd look at replacing if much over 7-8 years with a new NI-MH pack.
tabetha
All alarms will draw power, no reason why cliffys would be any heavier than others, the voltage you quote after 2 weeks of non use sounds good to me.
A few older toads are now starting to have issues due to back up battery leakage, as until 2 years ago they were NI-CD, after some years these leak and spill corrosive contents over the circuit board, or if lucky just go duff.
It is now illegal to use NI-CD, they are NI-MH much better, easy to replace, about £15, the battery back up draws power 100% of the time, a sign of a duff one is usually reverting to base settings and forgetting the stored settings, then total failure to turn off when set off, refusal to arm/disarm.
The original cells were made by VINIC, but I'd look at replacing if much over 7-8 years with a new NI-MH pack.
tabetha
30-12-2010, 06:18 PM
#11
Interesting info, perhaps I am just paranoid I will see how it goes although I did have a dead flat a little while ago so something must have been causing a drain.
The backup battery is supposed to only draw power when the car is running (at least it's supposed to on mine) although I agree it must do all the time as I don't see how it can be that clever to differentiate.
Re the Clifford it's just what I have heard about them being "Hungry", of course it could just be "Hear say"
Martin
The backup battery is supposed to only draw power when the car is running (at least it's supposed to on mine) although I agree it must do all the time as I don't see how it can be that clever to differentiate.
Re the Clifford it's just what I have heard about them being "Hungry", of course it could just be "Hear say"
Martin
30-12-2010, 06:55 PM
#13
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My Brother had a clifford fitted, latest model at the time.
He wanted to fit it himself but then they wouldnt issue a cert for insurance.
as the mini is 1960/70's it dosnt have anything,
No closure
No central locking
Naff all realy
Clifford man fitted it issued the cert all good!..... until we opened the bonnet.
He had mounted the siren no more than an inch away from the turbo!
(its a mini pickup turbo btw)
so we moved the siren to a pratical point then tidyed all the wiring up think we cut off aroung 5/7meters of unused cable nothing shortened just bunched up and black taped!!
Realy shocked at the workmanship!
He wanted to fit it himself but then they wouldnt issue a cert for insurance.
as the mini is 1960/70's it dosnt have anything,
No closure
No central locking
Naff all realy
Clifford man fitted it issued the cert all good!..... until we opened the bonnet.
He had mounted the siren no more than an inch away from the turbo!
(its a mini pickup turbo btw)
so we moved the siren to a pratical point then tidyed all the wiring up think we cut off aroung 5/7meters of unused cable nothing shortened just bunched up and black taped!!
Realy shocked at the workmanship!
30-12-2010, 08:02 PM
#15
PassionFord Post Whore!!
30-12-2010, 08:16 PM
#16
it's one of them falcon or hawk or whatever they are called alarms
might even be a hornet
apparently it's a very good alarm, but it's just shockingly shit as far as i'm concerened
things like "putting the car into reverse and the mirrors fold in" or "adjusting the seat" and the mirrors fold in" or "arming the car unlocks the car and then you can't lock it again when the alarm is armed" or "unlocking the car is virtually impossible" or, and i only found this out the other day, "arming the alarm when the car is moving SETS THE ALARM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
30-12-2010, 09:49 PM
#17
OCD Victim
i'll find a weekend to come over then mate
it's one of them falcon or hawk or whatever they are called alarms
might even be a hornet
apparently it's a very good alarm, but it's just shockingly shit as far as i'm concerened
things like "putting the car into reverse and the mirrors fold in" or "adjusting the seat" and the mirrors fold in" or "arming the car unlocks the car and then you can't lock it again when the alarm is armed" or "unlocking the car is virtually impossible" or, and i only found this out the other day, "arming the alarm when the car is moving SETS THE ALARM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
it's one of them falcon or hawk or whatever they are called alarms
might even be a hornet
apparently it's a very good alarm, but it's just shockingly shit as far as i'm concerened
things like "putting the car into reverse and the mirrors fold in" or "adjusting the seat" and the mirrors fold in" or "arming the car unlocks the car and then you can't lock it again when the alarm is armed" or "unlocking the car is virtually impossible" or, and i only found this out the other day, "arming the alarm when the car is moving SETS THE ALARM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
What year is the Mondeo again? I am wondering if the installer has somehow wired into the original alarm wiring (as that shuts the mirrors on arming, etc...) or has tapped into a "can" wire if yours runs it (depending on year).
As for the doors not locking on the aftermarket alarm, the installer has probably gone straight to the door looms with the alarm wires instead of through a relay and has "nuked" the supplies (they are only 500mA negative max to run a relay, not directly sourced).
Same as I bet the installer has gone to a door pin switch wire near the GEM module for the door sensing, not the A-pillar where he should have gone.
You should have my number, if not Mick has it, so we can always sort something out.
30-12-2010, 10:04 PM
#18
OCD Victim
There are 2 ways of looking @ alarms, do you want features or "fit and forget" functionality? This is what I always used to ask customers when fitting alarms for them.
If they want "fit and forget", then a Toad ai606 every day of the week. IT has less wires to run than a ai101CL, has more options and simply works. I have an ai606 installed on 3 of my vehicles (I have 8 in the family) and they have not gone wrong yet.
If they want features, then a Clifford is more likely. The problems with Cliffords almost always boil down to the installer (I only know of 4 fitters I would ever trust to go near a car or recommend, and 2 of them have now retired). If fitted quickly or poorly, they WILL go wrong or be tempremental. Period. The rest of the time, they go wrong because of user error and not reading the manual, for example, putting the alarm into valet mode before disconnecting the battery or jumpstarting from another source, otherwise the alarm can tend to "freak" itself out due to the voltage "spike" when power comes back.
As for power drains, the most draining part of most modern alarm systems is the LED that is on display. On Cliffords, if left armed for over 48 hours continuous, the LED flashes @ a reduced rate precisely to avoid an excessive parasitic drain.
Most alarms now only power up the internal relays and circuitry when the alarm is disarmed and the ignition is on. I have a top of the range Clifford on one of my vehicles, with ALL the extra options (totalling well over £1000 if I had it fitted @ retail prices) including multiple sirens, battery backup and normal, and it drains the battery as quick as another, almost identical car I have which has a more basic Clifford with not even half the accessories. I have left both cars for over a month without going near them and they have started with no bother. The Toad I have drains in roughly the same amount of time as the Cliffords.
As for the sirens "knowing when the car is running", most modern ones have an "ignition sense" wire which activates the charging facility only when the ignition is turned on (sensed via the main alarm unit), preventing a drain when armed. If the siren is draining, chances are it is an externally powered one (only takes a single feed from the alarm module purely to activate the siren) and normally has a key access to override if the battery is disconnected or the alarm has not been installed correctly and a "false" ignition feed is being sensed. Batteries can, and do fail internally in sirens, a battery can only be charged for so many cycles before degredation occurs. Again, modern technology can, and does, help slow this process down.
One thing to remember with Clifford is that they were taken over a few years ago by Directed Electronics (who make Avital, Viper, Hornet, etc...) and the quality DID go down a little. I think they may even have been sold again recently. The best Cliffords of recent times were the G3, G4 and 1st edition G5 series IMO. (Examples, G5 Concept 750 is 1st edition, G5 Concept 770 is 2nd edition). The later G5 are not as good as they have gone overly complicated to install, meaning more things to potentially go wrong.
If they want "fit and forget", then a Toad ai606 every day of the week. IT has less wires to run than a ai101CL, has more options and simply works. I have an ai606 installed on 3 of my vehicles (I have 8 in the family) and they have not gone wrong yet.
If they want features, then a Clifford is more likely. The problems with Cliffords almost always boil down to the installer (I only know of 4 fitters I would ever trust to go near a car or recommend, and 2 of them have now retired). If fitted quickly or poorly, they WILL go wrong or be tempremental. Period. The rest of the time, they go wrong because of user error and not reading the manual, for example, putting the alarm into valet mode before disconnecting the battery or jumpstarting from another source, otherwise the alarm can tend to "freak" itself out due to the voltage "spike" when power comes back.
As for power drains, the most draining part of most modern alarm systems is the LED that is on display. On Cliffords, if left armed for over 48 hours continuous, the LED flashes @ a reduced rate precisely to avoid an excessive parasitic drain.
Most alarms now only power up the internal relays and circuitry when the alarm is disarmed and the ignition is on. I have a top of the range Clifford on one of my vehicles, with ALL the extra options (totalling well over £1000 if I had it fitted @ retail prices) including multiple sirens, battery backup and normal, and it drains the battery as quick as another, almost identical car I have which has a more basic Clifford with not even half the accessories. I have left both cars for over a month without going near them and they have started with no bother. The Toad I have drains in roughly the same amount of time as the Cliffords.
As for the sirens "knowing when the car is running", most modern ones have an "ignition sense" wire which activates the charging facility only when the ignition is turned on (sensed via the main alarm unit), preventing a drain when armed. If the siren is draining, chances are it is an externally powered one (only takes a single feed from the alarm module purely to activate the siren) and normally has a key access to override if the battery is disconnected or the alarm has not been installed correctly and a "false" ignition feed is being sensed. Batteries can, and do fail internally in sirens, a battery can only be charged for so many cycles before degredation occurs. Again, modern technology can, and does, help slow this process down.
One thing to remember with Clifford is that they were taken over a few years ago by Directed Electronics (who make Avital, Viper, Hornet, etc...) and the quality DID go down a little. I think they may even have been sold again recently. The best Cliffords of recent times were the G3, G4 and 1st edition G5 series IMO. (Examples, G5 Concept 750 is 1st edition, G5 Concept 770 is 2nd edition). The later G5 are not as good as they have gone overly complicated to install, meaning more things to potentially go wrong.
Last edited by iansoutham; 30-12-2010 at 10:09 PM.
27-02-2011, 10:12 AM
#22
20K+ Super Poster.
PFK electronics, aka auto watch are actually very very good, been around quietly for years but doing a ace job with a good product and even better after sales service, I think but not sure that any of their installs have a 24/7 emergency fix it service, which is far better than some.
tabetha
tabetha
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