Chip

iTrader: (3)

A law degree is apparently quite easy if you ask a lot of working class folk who seem to think lawyers shouldnt earn any more money than them driving a van or digging holes etc

SiZT

I see, so the middle class don't smoke the weed they grow but the working class do?

A medical degree seems easy, 6 years of getting pissed

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I believe that most of the degree is a piece of piss but that the exams at the end can be a bit of a bitch if you havent been working hard for some of the time as well as partying

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

I own cossie cause i want too. Why cant i own one. I may not have a lot of money but i need to enjoy somethings in life. I work hard for what ive got. Im paying my bills n debt which soon will be paid off then i can come on here and brag about buying new cars.

Elwood

Phrases like that make me smile. It almost sounds as if they're aspiring to it. Who'd want to willingly do that?

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

The difference isn't financial, it's about attitude and outlook. Working class people think they're oppressed, middle class think they're the oppressors.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Your second statement seems to be very much at odds with the first one.
Ive never had a point in my life that I would say I could "barely survive" financially, and yet Ive had lots of points in my life where there is no way I could afford to buy or run a cossie.

I guess it depends what you class as "barely survive" but to me thats a roof over your head and food in your cupboards, its not a luxury like a fast car.

Gazzonator

iTrader: (9)

In my job I go out to allsorts of people, some have a lot of money, some don't.

I have noticed that the people that seem to be quite well off and 'middle' or 'upper' class tend to look down their noses at me a bit which does piss me off as IMO just because they have done better for themselves than I have so far, doesn't make them any better than me.

I went out to a middle aged bloke a little while back with a Volvo XC90 that had a puncture. He had a nice house with a long driveway, couple of other nice cars in the drive, very well spoken etc......

I parked my van on the road outside walked up and knocked on the door. When he answered and gave me the keys, I asked if I could park my van behind his car to save me keep walking back and forth if I needed something else (I always ask before I park on drives as I think it's rude just to park there without asking first). He replied 'no. I don't want everyone to see I have a problem!' WTF!!!

I didn't argue, it's his drive after all.

A little while he later came out to see how long it was going to take. I told him and then he said to me something along the lines of 'it must terrible to be in your position?' I asked why and he said 'to be in a poor financial position and have to resort to manual labour to earn some sort of living. I don't envy you at all!'

I just said that I enjoy my job, meet allsorts of people, earn what I think is good money, have a home, my cars that I enjoy and I'm happy and asked why that is a bad thing!!

He just muttered 'simple things please simple minds!!' and walked back in!!

I honestly don't know why some people are like that!!! I just had to have a little chuckle to myself! At least I can change my own wheels!

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

I didnt say me/i i said WE
. Me and the wife pay my bills put petrol in the cars n put food on the table but dont have much money for anything else. Give it another year and me n the wife will have some spare spending money. Love u chip.

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Once upon a time you could categorise middle classes as having been degree educated and typically owned their own property, whereas working classes were often educated through trade apprentiships and rented property. This is a historic definition and not so valid now.

In terms of attiude there are lots of generalisations that can be made but "class" refers to a massive group of people in society so it's difficult to categorise individuals using the same definitions.

By the way I confess that I am typically middle class. Live in a big house in Dulwich, don't work too hard, have a massive mortgage, read the Guardian, have degrees, etc etc. Certainly don't look down on anybody for any reason and treat everybody with respect.


Charlie

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Charlie, Not sure which I would categorise myself as TBH, not quite as simple as for you.

"working class done good" I guess?

Grew up in an ex council house went to a state school so pretty much working class by any standards at that stage.

Since then I did my A levels and a degree, went into computer programming then ran my own company for a while earning good money during the IT boom and now have a white colar job writing finance software and things like that for major corporations, I own property I rent out, I earn a reasonable wage, so now heading more towards the typical middle class area I guess.

Not something I consider normally really as I couldnt care less about definitions of class in how I view people, as I dont think its important.

Cant stand the non-working subclass chav scum cunts though, they should all be driven into the fucking sea.

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Quality post.

where in Dulwich you live? do you know winterbrook road?

Jim Galbally

my ex did all this as part of her degree and there is actually a techncal definition of the class system.

so officially it is based upon which job role you perform. each job is weighted, fits into a category and that category falls into a class. i beleive salary is also included in their weighting but cant remember exactly.

I have always thought my myself and my job as working class however officially, i am middle class.

so, the answer is your CLASS has NO relation to your attitude to life, whether youre a flash git,a snob etc. it is purely down to the job you perform.

you can get a bloke whos working class and an utter cnut and someone who is upper class who is a top bloke. it makes no difference

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

I'm halfway between the Village and Lordship Lane.

Yeah, my friends Hillary and Mark live in Winterbrook Road but that's more Herne Hill. I aspire to live there but can't afford the houses:



Charlie

Rod-Tarry

If your involved in this discussion your working class cos any other class dont give a fig about it.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

According to who? Those kind of definitions are created by theorists, who by definition work on theories.

Class is a subjective issue that many try and objectify. It all depends on how you as an individual view it, there is no 'law'.

Me, I think it's partially money, but mostly attitude.

Minirotty

I do not agree it is down to the job you have at all. If it were I would be middle class which I know I am not.

I am working class, have always thought I was but that programme anoid me yesterday with his generalisations of the middle classes.

I do think this country is now becoming a them and us state again, and the snobbery I see mostly if I am honest is on the car parks at work, so many small minded people look down on others for what they drive sadly.

You can see it when sat in traffic, funniest thing though, a chap I work with who is on over 100K a year drives an old rover bubble into work lol.

p.cressie

In the words of Billy Connolly, middle class = v-neck wearing, volvo driving, golf players that fuck things up for the rest of us.

Jim Galbally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class

there are different models, but 99% of them are based around similar grounds. and likely more valid than your own personal interpretation

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

According to those, I'm Lower Middle Class - So could all you working classes please refer to me as 'Sir' from now on. Thanks.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

wouldnt want the sea to be polluted Burn them all in modern clean powerstations to help solve our energy crisis until the next generation of nuclear plants are up and running.
Being called "Sir" gets boring after a while!!

BY those definitions im upper middle class. The class system doesnt seem very adaptable. eg when does a posh cunt in the middle class become working class??? Income alone doesnt seem to matter and in the current times there are plenty of people who are considered middle class doing working class jobs out of necessity. And also in the boom times there were plenty of rich builders and plumbers with the incomes and property associated with middle class yet you wouldnt call them middle class and also they would vehemently deny being middle class if asked!!!!

RickDraper

..

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

How do you figure that?

joffy

iTrader: (1)

Middle class get out of the bath to have a piss

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

You live in Stoke, there is no way any one from Stoke is even lower middle class.

RichardPON

I agree entirely..... especially if this working class type gets me my coffee I'm waiting on post-haste...

Alan_D

Historically the middle classes have been the people who live off the income from savings. They don't need jobs and are generally not 'employees'. But nowadays the likes of lawyers, doctors, and people working in banking, etc, are considered middle class. It's not just about profession though. Middle classes tend to be a bit more thoughtful and have a more restrained demeanor.

Alan_D

The point is that middle class isn't something to be hated. All it means is that they've been prudent and consumed less than they've earned, saving money to put to use to give themselves a better quality of life later on, rather than just blowing it all now.

Being totally objective about it, people who are stuck for their whole lives on the same level of income tend to actually be quite lazy (rather than working their guts out for nothing, as they claim), but still think they're owed something by people who have more than them through their own self-sacrifice. This idea - from the working class - is the basis of socialism and oppression. It all goes under the guise of 'equality' and 'fairness' when it's anything but. So if you're objective you can see that classes aren't something to be looked up or down upon, but just to be accepted as the choices and the route people - or their parents, or parents' parents - have decided to take in life.

Obviously, though, the state of some people's finances have been partly down to luck: people who've got rich speculating on the stock market, or people who have nothing because of a natural disaster or something totally out of their control. But in general it's about the choices that have been taken. In a system that doesn't promote class division through the false logic mentioned above, there is no such thing as class, only varying degrees of wealth. Sadly it's very difficult for such a system to exist in politics. The only place it briefly did exist was in the U.S.A. after the constitution, and even there the rights somehow didn't extend to Africans. But other than that America was almost totally free of bureaucracy and was a beacon for individual freedom.

Maybe this is a bit of a serious post for passionford, so I'll get back to the usual - Fuck those rich pricks! Think they're better than us!

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

upbringing, education, profession (past and likely future) and income (past and likely future), and attitude.
I currently reside in stoke. I am not from stoke though! theres a difference! Once im out of uni I am out of here and back further south where i grew up.

Your comment shows up the flaw of the class system.... so does someone who has spent all thier life in a middle class background suddenly become a underclass scum bag because they were made redundant?? or moved to a poor area?? and if so then vice versa you can rejoin the middle class as soon as you find employment again surely?? So thats where the whole thing just doesnt work.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYY1QGK0jQ

Jim Galbally

without clicking on that link i can just guess it's a 2ronnie's sketch