DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Sooooooo... for the eight billionth time - why?? What was the motive for all this, or are you just so wrapped up in exposing minutely unimportant details that you've forgotten that there has to be an actual motive for there to be a conspiracy.

Why the 'lol'? Not sure why the council tracking vehicles is odd?

RobL

i think youll find the trucks were fitted with gps a whole month after the attacks not the day before 9/11 as theorists would have you believe
and the reason for this was that the rubble was turning up at sites it shouldnt have been,of course they wanted keep track of it its not unreasonable is it?its only the evidence to the biggest atrocity on US soil

danneth

Why would I find it odd that somone wants to track my van that I dont work for?

The goverment got an outside company in for the clear up well I say outside loosely, and then they want to track there trucks which are full of rubble worthy of a lol imo

As for why they did it all boils down to money, im sure your not going to believe danneth off passionford, and im guessing you havent actually watched or read most of the stuff about it other then maybe loose change otherwise you wouldnt need to ask

danneth

So if its evidence where is it now?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

9/11 caused one of the biggest recessions in US history
Any money that the americans make longer term from Iraq and Afghanistan is going to be a LONG time coming if at all.

Even if you did make the assumption that long term americans would turn a profit eventually despite the MASSIVE cost to the US of the recession it caused and the war they have engaged in and even the cost of the clean up operation itself which ran into billions of dollars, you have to bare in mind that politicians do what they need to make money during their term, not 30 years later when it will look like some other president is the hero of the hour.

Like fuck would the administration at the time have felt there was profit to be made during their administration from knocking down the twin towers, thats actually far more ridiculous than the earlier comment that planes "allegedly" crashed into the towers

RobL

im not interested were it is now,its case closed as far as im concerned
at the end of the day some muslim terroists got on planes and flew them into buildings,if they hadnt they would still be standing today simple as that

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

So the employer want to track their freelanced employee? And that's weird why?

I've read and seen lots of stuff, but it's clear that there are a lot of people determined to prove their point one way or the other. There is VERY little objective material, and very little that can be read as impartial. You've clearly pitched your tent in the crazy camp!

You can't give the answer of "Money" as if that somehow explains it. What money?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The similarities with religion as so massive its amazing.

To be a conspiracy theorist you need to:

a) not ever look into science properly enough to see it contradicts everything you are saying, just listen only to the "churches" view on science


b) point to minor gaps in evidence to imply these missing bits of proof negative are in fact proof positive that something totally ridiculous is true, rather than just missing evidence cause you cant find it or arent allowed access to it
(so for 9/11 thats "rubble is missing so bush did it" and for religiion its "a fossile of a missing link hasnt been found so god made us all" )

c) you dismiss as unenlightened anyone who doesnt share your delusion, and you miss the fact its actually you wearing the blinkers not everyone else!

d) you re-enforce your beliefs by talking to others who have no proof either but you feel that if lots of people feel the same way that somehow adds value to a non existant argument so you gain "faith" in your argument
you quote things like "how come so many people also know it too if its not true?" as if that matters at all when all it does is show others share your delusion.


It really IS a cult, just like christianity!

RobL

funny that,this thread got me thinking of a program on the manson family i watched a bit back.it kinda amazes me how easily normal people can be suckered in this is what we are dealing with here

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

I'm a christian, but not getting into that!

But yes, this conspiracy thing really is very cult like IMO.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well at least you know where these idiots are coming from with believing utterly ludicrous nonsense despite all evidence to the contary then.
Sure you dont want to buy into the 9/11 stuff as well while you are being a gullable twat anyway?

Sort of a "buy one set of nonsense beliefs get one free" kind of special offer?


Are you on about the 9/11 thing of the christianity thing, as seems to apply the same to both to me?

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Oooh nice low blow there Chip

And wasn't relegion one of the things you don't discuss

So lets leave it there.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well your a christian, so just forgive me


The nonsense details about the religion itself yes is on the list, (although the list doesnt count when im in works time ) but the psychology of people joining cults does interest me.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Harsh!

danneth

chip just so I can get this right what makes you not believe a structual engineers, a demo experts, and architechts who have stuided the collapse of wtc7 for many years just wondered how you could be right and them so wrong when they have all the info,experience, qualifications and you have well....?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I do believe them, the majority of them that are saying the towers were hit by planes flown by terrorists and fell down as a result, like for example the edinborough uni paper on the subject, which I believe to be quite authoritive.
I just dont believe a load of self proclaimed whacko nut jobs on youtube.


The bigger question is why do you believe all the whacko nut jobs and not the edinborough university scientific paper on the subject?


If you can think of a good authoritive person with genuine credentials who's opinion you think is worth listening to alongside the opinion of a uk university, please give me details of where I can find such a paper and I will read it.


I suspect I'll be waiting quite some time though

RobL

your more gullable than i origanally thought,how do you go about your day to day business without people taking advantage of you?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think someone should put together a mailing list of all the conspiracy nutjobs so I can mailshot them the next time im selling something

the mk1 kid

Hi guys, i'm back

For you Chip, Rob, Dan and who ever else is relying on the uni paper to squash all the 'myths' about the collapses, did you notice these lines in the uni paper Abstract?

''A complete consensus on any detailed explanation of the definitive causes and mechanisms of the collapse of these structures is well nigh impossible given the enormous uncertainties in key data (nature of the fires, damage to fire protection, heat transfer to structural members and nature and extent of structural damage for instance). There is however a consensus of sorts that the fires that burned in the structures after the attack had a big part to play in this collapse''

Hardly concrete by the sounds of it! This FEA model is merely a simulation created and run by students in the wrong country who have probably never been there. I dont see why you cant credit the same or greater intelligence and understanding to those engineers and architects in the US who completely disagree and have samples of the concrete/dust/metal not just pictures to look at!?

Tom

dojj

iTrader: (3)

Think it's a little unfair chip taking it so personally and now waving his keyboard at everyone who has a differnet onion to his "I don't believe so you shouldn't either" bandwagon.

Believers have "belief" and "faith" so no matter how hard you try, you will not win a battle with the religious peeps. My beliefs say that I should live my life in a nice way, help others when possible and arm myself incase I am needed in the battle against the naughty lot over there and have to get into a bit of a ruck.

So bundling it all into a conspiracy bundle with everything else just pointsto you not having the open mind that you preach to everyone else and delight in telling eveyone you don't believe in what they believe in. And seeing as you are at work and can spend all your time thinking about witty put downs is not really an excuse is it.

As for the towers arguement, something strange happened there and I don't think we will ever find out why they fell in the way they fell and why whatever happened afterwards happened so I'll just keep an open mind on this front until someone rebuilds them, fills them with the same equipment, people and stuff and then re enacts the planes going into them, although I somehow doubt Obama will let the mythbusters loose with that much detail and an endless budget for the restating of those events.

the mk1 kid

Dojj - i couldn't care whether a 'proper investigation' (as being called for) comes about or not - it wont bring back those or died, or bring much comfort to the families left behind, but i do enjoy a bit of friendly banter (for want of a better word) on the subject - its good for the grey cells and it does interest me.

Tom

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Thats exactly what the 9/11 lot are like, thats what Im saying its pointless arguing with them (although useful for killing free time at work ) as their decision to "believe" in what they do is a matter of "faith" and not in any way based on logic, so logic and science cant convince them otherwise, just like with religion or any other cult that brainwashes people to survive.



Other than the sex before marriage thing, the majority of my life is lead in a way that would fit in with all the expected behaviours from my local religion (which is still just about christian not muslim where i live, lol), im helpful to others, im honest etc, I dont disagree with the christian lifestyle choices in that respect, I just disagree that god exists, the rest of it is fine though and a good way to be, but my morals teach me that without needing to be scared of hell to be nice to someone like a lot of religious nuts need to be motivated by to help anyone.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Loads of concrete mate at the towers, 10s of thousands of tonnes in fact, and it all collapsed, so not something you would want a scientific study to mimic

That study doesnt draw a definitive conclusion for the simple that ONLY an accurate re-enactment can ever do that, so being proper scientists they accept this so arent preaching as gospel, but there is by far the most plausable paper on the subject so far IMHO


I'll trust UK scholars over americans any day mate, plus anyway as I mentioned to danneth, you conspiract lunatics are always talking about what american scholars think, so please can you give me a link to a reputable equivalent source (a US univerisity paper would be fine) like the ones you keep mentioning but have yet to show us all?

If you cant, then please STFU about them allegedly existing

the mk1 kid

Seriously Chip, i know you are really busy (), but try and find the time - somehow

Tom

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Wow, making up misquotes, who can argue with someone of such intelect?

Werent you one of the ones saying if people arent going to add anything useful they should fuck off?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ps

I do find it telling that the argument from the "against the conspiracy" camp is based on scientific writings and papers by universities etc and the argument from the "for the conspiracy" camp is based on youtube videos and tabloid tv documentaries

That alone kind of says it all really

danneth

Chip did I read you say loads of concrete at the towers

Chip

iTrader: (3)

In the joke that I cracked above?
Yes mate you did.

Are you now going to say that because they were actually made of very little concrete and i implied they were mainly made of it that it means it was me that knocked them down and im lieing to cover it up?

Damn you rumbled me, you guys are really good at getting the "truth" arent you?

the mk1 kid

Chip i was having a bit of fun, chill out mate.

You have demonstrated a very serious interest in dispelling the 'myths', and clearly you have plenty of time on your hands, so why not watch them?

PS the video's are not of some spotty teenager in his bedroom, but of an engineer conducting seminars to hundreds of people.

Go on, i dare you.

Tom

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I have no sound on my work pc.
I do not wish to spend my own time on this nonsense when I do have sound, Id sooner be fucking the mrs or driving my car etc when im away from my desk.

Plus TBH as an educated man Im more happy to read papers than to watch videos anyway.

the mk1 kid

Not got an i Phone - i'm sure they use 2.5mm jacks, and even the most basic pcs have sound cards in them dont they?

Tom

danneth

No there was plenty of concrete when they were built just none found After that was all

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I work in a shared office, even if I could play the sound through my iphone, it woudlnt be appreciated.

plus like I say, I would sooner read a proper paper on the subject written by someone with credentials, and so far none seem to exist other than obviously ones that say the total opposite of the shite you are pedalling.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Was loads when I saw them on the tv pulling people out of the rubble etc.

Maybe you just didnt notice it?

some on here for you:

In the comments it mentions moving 120 dump trucks full of rubble in a single night too, which was of course largely concrete.

I assume you'll take notice cause its on youtube

If you look really closely in this pictur you can just about make out some concete dust too



you literally couldnt move within a 10 mile radius without breathing in concrete, how can you possibly thing none was found, it was fucking EVERYWHERE just like you would expect from a building falling that far down and the massive forces that involves!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

...and you garnered this fact from the National Enquirer yes?

the mk1 kid

Stop making excuses, turn your head phones down and watch them - you're not going to gain any credence on here by suggesting the engineers and architects have you haven't seen or even listened to have 'no credentials' - ignorance is bliss eh?

Tom

danneth

Its in the official report. And the actual recordings of the men clearing the site are asking where all the concrete is

Let me guess what do they know lol

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I dont have headphones in work so how can I turn them down?

Like I said, any serious evidence would be presented in a scientific paper not a fucking youtube video anyway.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If they walked 10 miles in any direction, they would realise where it was!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

What? That there was no concrete! Christ man, look at the fucking photos, do you need me to point it out to you???

Your reasoned, and seemingly researched arguments have turned into the crazy ramblings of the kind of man who wears tin foil hats and refuses to answer the phone so the brain worms don't get in!