dojj

iTrader: (3)

i can tell you what i know about the missing gold, it was that bloke from lethal weapon 3, or was it 4? who stole it with the trucks, so it could be reality based on fiction, i'll give you that as it could be a genuine reason why they wanted all the lorries tracked and tagged etc to maintain a chain of events they could follow and weed out any discrepancies with

you would have thought this would have been made public knowledge as i don't think anyone freeloading from the tragedy would have had many friends, regardless of how rich they were

as for the nwo, read this

dojj

iTrader: (3)

them pics are a good find mate, it's how they "should" have fallen and i think the camera's were only trained on them from one angle mainly so this is what the world would have seen, thus it's a fail.com for the conspiracy coalition

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dojj, feel free to read my reply as saying "whoever planned the attacks" isntead of bin laden if you want mate, my point was that whoever was doing it, knew that the yanks wouldnt have the stomach for shooting down jumbo jets full of people at that point in time.

Im pretty sure they would now of course, but the world has changed since then!

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

chip, if i didnt know what you do already for a living, i'd say you worked in law!

you ever studied law academically?

gaz s1

Yes they opened my eyes and can see now the top just had enough and gave way because of all the damage and i guess the second tower did exactly the same.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

again, complete bollocks!!

especially prior to 9/11 planes go off course ALL the time and theres no military response. The only time you get a response is when you fly into restricted fly zones.

do you really think even NOW we have fighters constantly in the air patrolling against rogue airliners?? dont be silly. you have longe range radars and some aircraft on quick reaction alert and thats it, even in the US. the size of most built up areas with large airports you couldnt hope to get a jet in the air and to intercept a rogue airliner.

gaz s1

my brothers in the raf and flies the eurofighter, there is always 1 fighter fuelled and ready to go with the pilot who has to sit in the aircraft on the runway on standby, proper pisses him off when its his turn,, its a hard life for some.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

Yes but confusing the matter by including obl into thr equation when he was an after thought to start the whole war on terror thing is to miss the point of the attacks, you've made the point about it being an attack againt the financial aspect which is correct and I feel that if it had been a proper attampt by the forces of obl and his crew I think it would have been a set of planes all over the place, and possibly not just in America.

My mate said that obl was going to be the name on everyones lips in the 21st century on new years eve 1999 as a load of us spent the night round his place.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

yep its called QRA. (well it used to be )

in the good old cold war days you even had QRA (N) N standing for nuclear!!

S1rst

At the end of the day theres two sides to every story, and 9/11 is not 100% clear cut either way. It doesnt make you any more, or any less intelligent whatever you believe. Just because some people think that some things dont add up, and the fact there are so many unanswered questions, doesnt make them 'conspiracy theorists', it simply makes them 'realists', who are looking at the bigger picture, instead of others believing whats just on the surface, and just beleiving what they are 'told' happened that day and accepting that.

Its pretty clear that the government are 'hiding'/'covering up' something/s. That is undeniable, even by people who beleive its clear cut in the way of, 'terrorists hit the towers and they fell down, and thats that.' The question is, why is the governament doing this? For the good of the country/world, or for the good of themselves?

Its the 'covering up' that raises suspicion amongst the general public, and understandably so. The government have their reasons for keeping some information from the public, and regardless of why, its pretty certain that we will NEVER know.

I think 9/11 will always be one of those events where people will never know the whole 'truth' so debates like this will just go on forever so are pretty pointless from either side.

RobL

maybe they are covering something up,i said at the beginning of this thread its quite likely,i wouldnt say it was obvious though and if that were the case its far more likely be for the good of the people than because they blew shit up

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its obvious to people on both sides of the fence that they are covering something up.

The difference is wether you think that they are covering up something realistic like failings in building design, or wether the CIA slaughtered thousands of innocent americans just so that they could ruin the economy of their own country

RobL

they had no plan of action what so ever for hijacked passenger aircraft
the airport control towers and the air force didnt even use same coordinates,one used latitude and longitude and the other used degrees and minutes or whatever it is so communication between the two was useless
they had two jets on alert that werent even armed and a woman was flying one of them one of the pilots said he was thinking he would have to aim his plane at the airliner and eject if it came to it
i agree with what a lot of people have said that america were guilty of being a bit big headed and not thinking anyone was capable of attacking them in such a way

RobL

where have all the crackpots gone anyway? they given up?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

it's past their bedtime mate

RS220Turbo

This points to who really did it??



http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...identified.htm

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Er... Nope.

Less.

Dan its the internet so it must be true

dojj

iTrader: (3)

that looks like it's been cut with a blow torch mate, otherwise it would be all bent and shit with 80,000 tons of concrete dust smothering it

S1rst

Was the 'cut' steel framework ever actually explained in the report is that something that was 'unanswered'? Or was the reason for them that the fire services had to cut these afterwards to make the area safer and/or to clear it?

RobL

cut by fireman

RobL

the guy who came up with that theory and most others is professor steven jones he is a founder member of the thruth movement.he is also a devout mormon and a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints and reckons he has uncovered some evidence that jesus christ once visited america

Fiddy

Rite, seeing as a lot of the non conspiracy opinions are based on that IF, it was controlled demolition, it will have been terrorist doing, nothing to do with the government, CIA, FBI etc, as why would they do that to there own people, its pure fantasy, and they wouldnt/couldnt do it. lets answer that question, forget 9/11, WTC, planes, controlled demolition etc, just answer WHY, they wouldnt do that, when previously classified, top secret, documents, have shown that they HAVE been in either planning, or doing, false flag operations

Example, Operation Northwoods, Cuban Missle Crisis

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 10



States, a series of well CO-ORDINATED incidents will be PLANNED to take place in, and around, guantanamo, to give GENUINE appearance, of being done by HOSTILE Cuban forces

incidents to establish a CREDITABLE attack

(1) - start rumours (many), use clandestine radio

(2) - land friendly cubans in uniform "over the fence" to STAGE attack on base

(3) - capture (friendly) cuban saboteurs inside base

(4) - START riots near base gate (friendly cubans)

Page 11



(5) - blow up ammunition inside base, START fires

(6) - burn aircraft on base (sabotage)

(7) - lob mortar shells from OUTSIDE base INTO base, some damage to installations

(8) - capture assault teams approaching from sea or vicinity of guantanamo city

(9) - capture militia group which storm the base

(10) - SABOTAGE ship in harbour, large fires

(11) - SINK ship near harbour entrance. conduct funerals for MOCK victims

United States would respond by executing offensive operations to secure water and power supplies, artillery and mortar emplacements that threaten the base

start large scale United States military operation

a "remember the maine" incident could be arranged in several forms

(my personal favorite)

WE could blow up a US ship in guantanamo bay, and BLAME cuba

WE could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in cuban waters. WE could arrange to cause such incident in havana or santiago as a spectacular result of cuban attack by air, sea, or both.

the presence of cuban planes or ships merely INVESTIGATING the intent of the vessel, could be fairly compelling EVIDENCE, that the ship was taken UNDER ATTACK.

the nearness to havana and santiago would ADD credibility, especially by those who had heard the blast, or seen the fire.

the us could follow up with an air/sea rescue, covered by US fighters, to "evacuate" remaining members of the NON EXCISTANT (LMFAO) crew

casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation

WE could DEVELOP a COMUNIST cuban terror campaign in the miami area, in other florida cities, and even washington.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and who came up with these 'ideas'



The chairman of the joint cheifs of staff 'LL NEMNITZER'

who was chairman of the joint cheifs of staff on 9/11, four star general richard myers, the highest ranking uniformed military officer in the united states, who answered only to george bush, and was the man who masterminded, planned, and excecuted, the war in iraq.



now im not saying its a conspiracy, maybe it happened how everyone thinks, planes, fire, buildings fall. but given ALL the evidence, from the wreckage, the way the towers fell, and taking into account the history of PROVEN american false flag operations, the mexican-american war/s 1819 and 1846-48, spanish-american war in 1898, and more recent 'wars', the korean war, vietnam etc, that also have documents that could point to false flag operations, i keep an open mind, and until someone PROVES either it was a conspiracy, or it wasnt, i do not not believe it went down, how 'they' say it did, there are far to many 'unanswered' questions.

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

Now that is interesting.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the non conspiracy lot will now blame the fact that he's not at work as it's the weekend for not replying

but it does get you thinking....

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Notice that whole operation was based around damaging us government owned bases and ships and pretending to hurt people.

If you think that has anything in common with destroying billions of dollars of private real estate and thousands of innocent people you really are beyond help.

What that document proves is that even if the us were going to conspire they would be doing so in a way designed specifically to minimise collateral damage!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Out of curiosity what is the validity of the document? Is it proven to be 100% genuine?

danneth

"The chairman of the joint cheifs of staff 'LL NEMNITZER'"

its almost as bad as having zelikov do the 9/11 commission report

RobL

wow,youre scraping the bottom of the barrel now
so the yanks de classify this document in 1997 for the world to see just 4 years before 9/11,they really are dumber than we give them credit for
and theres no clear mention of the murder of civilians,id say reading that they want the loss of life minimal or non at all
completely different set of cirumstances to 9/11,how can you compare plan involving russians building rockets in neighbouring cuba during the height of the cold war to 9/11?

danneth

I think your missing the point, which is the goverment love to lie are deffo shouldn't be trusted and quite capable of anything, but no doubt you will disagree

RobL

no i think youre missing point tbh,i think "capable of anything" is a little off the mark but im sure they will go to great lengths to protect their people
also these papers are from 1962,completely different regime in charge
its like suggesting we should be wary of the german government because of the shit hitler got up to

mrjenrst

It has been proven and admitted mate, also that link i put up.

Fiddy

its a de-classified, top secret document, that was i believe, obtained by a freedom of information act request. no one from the united states government, or military, has ever denied it.

Fiddy

Hang on a minute..............

Fiddy

Far from it, i have posted PROOF, that these people, who run countrys, are not always doing what is best for the safety of the nation, and are willing to go to any lengths, including clearly making up stories, and deceiving the world, that another country did something, when in relaity, it was a false flag operation, that they would do to themselves, in order, for them to gain compasion from the nation/world, that would be a reason for them to go to war on the moral high ground.

WTC = Compasion = War In Iraq = Control of HUUUUUGE Resources Of Natural Gas And Oil, far from clutching at straws when you compare the two is it.

Plus, remind me again exactally what Iraq and Saddam Hussein did ?, thats rite, the WMD they had, that were never found, after the AMERICANS had 'good information', they DID have WMD, and was the reason they invaded the country in the first place, and killed Saddam.

BUT, they cant be brought to justice over that fact, because even by there own admission, it turned out it was 'bad information', AFTER and BECAUSE of 9/11, the rules were changed, and goal posts moved, to now cover, all they needed was 'good information' that a country was upto something, and that gave them grounds to illiminate the 'threat', which in reality, as the lack of WMD and the addmitance of 'bad information' after the invasion prove, they had no reason what so ever, to invade iraq in the first place, and BEFORE 9/11 under the old 'rules', would have NOT been allowed, because they would have had to have CONCRETE proof, before an invasion could happen.


and speaking of 9/11, isnt it Bin Laden who was the mastermind behind it, and isnt he the most wanted man in the world, 'WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE' ?,

so why in march 2002, only 6 months after 9/11, is bush on record stating in a interveiw, and i quote

"i dont know where bin laden is, i have no idea, and i dont really care, its not important, he isnt a priority rite now"

but obviously after he said it, and realising what he had actually said, all reports were denied, and he doesnt recall saying it.

we all know bush isnt the brightest bulb in the box, who remembers 'fool me once'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A


what he was actually trying to say was, 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me'

thats just one of many 'bushisms' over the years, the man is far from inteliigent, and regularly said things he either shouldnt have, or didnt mean to.

Fiddy

before i even posted it chip, i knew you would answer EXACTLLY the way you did, as ive said, your intelligent, and there is no pulling the wool over your eyes, and your bang on the money mate, it would have been done with minimal collateral damage, but to acheive the highest possible political stance.

but i posted to PROVE that, its not beyond the realms of possibility, that the government COULD, have the balls to do it, as the document PROVES, those in power, would/could, and have done, whatever is necassary, to enable them to get what they want.

again, as i said, dont just rule out an inside job, because of morals and doing the 'rite' thing, because trust me, getting what they want, is far more important, than doing whats rite, they just need 'reasons' to do what they want, that will get the backing of the public, and enable them to do what they want, with public support.

RobL

the only conclusion i can get from that is your as daft as danneth
your right about one thing though bush was a complete clown which imo only makes it more obsurd that he would do such things and folk would go along with him,and i suppose that would bring us back to higher powers and other people pulling the strings
you guys are funny

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Fiddy that document proves they considered lying and damaging assets.
It does nothing to prove they would do something like 9 11, it does the opposite if anything.

It proves they'll happily lie of course, but we all know that anyway without needing any more proof.
They lied about 9 11 from the moment it happened till today, but they didn't do it, they just capitalised on it after as best they could, on that I'd bet my house.

Anyway as mentioned thats a discussion for working hours, lol

RobL

it proves nothing
how does one plan that clearly wants top minimise loss of life in a conflict with russians setting up missiles in the states`s back garden during the cold war compare to the mass killing of innocent civillians for finiancial gain?

Fiddy

have you missed the point ALL TOGETHER ?, my point, was aimed at all of the non conspiracy theorists, who think due to morals and doing the rite thing, the powers that be, like the government, FBI, CIA, high military command, would never do anything like that to there own people, which that official top secret document proves is NOT the case. so i didnt prove anything, your rite, but i didnt have to, there own documents did, but you obviously missed it.

IF they were willing to deceive the whole nation/planet, that the cubans did something to the US, that the US actually did to themselves, in order to go to war with, and invade, cuba, as it STATES in that document, blown up there own ships, conduct rescue missions for non existent crew, hold mock funerals, mortar there own bases, do you really think that morally, they would care about losing a few thousand lives, for the financial benefit of a lot of 'well to do' people, and gaining a strong political foothold, as well as worldwide public sympathy ?

trust me, the USA gained a lot more than the 3k lives lost, on 9/11, financially, morally, politically, infact, in pretty much every way. as a government, international power, and country, what was gained from 9/11, is priceless.

Even Tony Blair said not long after 9/11, there was no hard evidence, no paper trail, that could lead to OBL or the hijackers being brought to trial and convicted, but then, as if by miracle, a video of OBL, turned up in a hut in afghanistan, with him 'admitting' he was behind 9/11, (even though the guy in the video who is supposed to be OBL, looks nothing like any other video/picture of him), and that, wipes out the need for hard evidence, or a paper trail, needed to convict him of it, because he has admitted his 'guilt', so obviously, it must have been him.

so there was no evidence for a trial, in a court, at the time, but there was enough evidence, to invade a country, and go to war, yet another example of doing what they want, not what, is legally, or morally, correct.