StephenC

not read the full thread, couple of pages is enough. Cant see the arguement, lets be honest, god forbid we had a natural disaster in our country theyd be the first to send us money!! like fuck!! Im all for helping people out that ultimately would return the favour, alot of these places we help out would NEVER even consider it.

Kam B

ahh PF at its best.

I think the best reply on this thread is

Thats what it means to be british.

A big convoy went from UK with loads of old ambulances full up with Aid and hand delivered it to the people in Gaza, some even went from Slough, init : )

Chip

iTrader: (3)

So you believe that rather than having high moral standards we should all sink to the lowest common denominator and let innocent children die in agony for the sake of a few quid's worth of medicine?

You are exactly what is wrong with this country IMHO, we should do the best we can do by the least fortunate people in this world, not look at everything with a selfish attitude, being born in a relatively wealthy country like the UK is a lucky priviledge we all have and it amazes me how few people see that.

RichardPON

I can't understand this argument - why would the underprivilged who have nothing send money to the priviliged who have plenty?

If we had a natural disaster on their scale, all that would happen is that I'd be largely inconvenienced for a while.

percybigun

i can see both sides of the arguement, but its a bit of a worry with the conflict of interests with the afghan war:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-attacks.html

and who is to say the aid money will actually get to the right places, some african countries have passed aid money on to dodgy organisations in the past!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Percy, it is absolutely inevitable that some of the aid will end up in the wrong hands, it always does, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt give it just cause only 50% of it is going to save lives or whatever, thats still enough to justify the expense.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

id say africa is a lost cause that money and charities just cant fix.

the world food aid program in africa tends to just delay the inevitable be it starvation or mass murder.

so true

mrjenrst

it was a wealthy country now it's not, end of the day i agree that the west should help but not with tax payer's money ffs.

britain should be run for the british population, otherwise is it not the same as the expenses row? taxpayer's money not going where it should?

different end of the scale but in principal the same.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

if the uk government giving ten million to this disasater feels that wrong to some, how about the 480 million it has given to pakistan government to beef up its security on the afghanistan border .now thats what i call wrong
admittedly probably by the last labour government



that was a statto for you chopster lol

Escy

That's what I've been saying. We are able to use our privileged position to help others in need and everyone says fuck them. People on here are a disgrace.

Saying they wouldn't help us is a ridiculously stupid arguement, we are never going to be in a position to require help like this, we should consider ourselves lucky

mrjenrst

but that's 5 million going into the hand's of who??

could it be possible that the 5 million could be used on arms against our troop's across the border in stan, if it were then taxpayer's would be providing more cost to ourselves

RANJ

lol alot of dopey thick fucks on here, lol i shall read on in amusement

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

mrjenrst your grievance sound like its with the uk government and the credability of the pakistan government.but like you the majority of the pakistan people are victims of their own governments inability to take care of them,and are mere numbers in a system that couldnt give a fook.it will be better all round to give aid in their country than it will be to deal with the thousands of people who are going to try flee this disaster and end up on british shores.

mrjenrst

very true and i can see it happening, as i've said i've nothing against the poor people it's happened to. but throwing 10 million of tax payers hard earned at them wont do anything at all to help them. so it's pointless from an aid perspective.
i cant see why people cant grasp that.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

So buying medicine like antibitoics to treat kids suffering from being in filthy water wont actually help those kids?

Jesus christ man can you not just lift your nasty little hate filled blinkers for just one second and read what you are actually writing!

Of COURSE it will fucking help them!

Yes some of the money will be wasted on admin
Yes some of the money will end up in the wrong hands
But some of it will save the precious lives of innocent children and if its only 50% efficient in doing so then its still money well spent!

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Thats quite interesting actually and makes me

Smiggy

Dojj, do you know what you are talking about or are you just spouting pish? Of course they can offer trade, they will buy our goods & services and use our technology. What technology R&D base does pakistan have? What can pakistan offer to the western world with regard to new technology? Very little, therefore they have to buy that expertise in.

I don't particularly like the government throwing away money either but in the grand scheme of things giving foreign aid is beneficial in so many other ways.

People are so naive, they don't know how the world works at all.

john

Some of the uneducated replies on here is quite astonishing. Didnt realise people were so blinkered. Sums up the typical stereo type of a brit really.

Thick as pig s/\t.

155lee

iTrader: (10)

why are we giving them money when we can give them aid,medical supplies,tents etc etc etc.surely something they can put into use straight away will be of more use than a wad of cash.i dont agree with giving away money when our country is in such a bad way especially when the money isnt all going to go to the people.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It doenst literally mean 10 million in a suitcase full of used twentys

john

LOL The replies get better

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i can understand that they would be, in your words, willing to "buy" the expertise, but how likely is that? realistically? not really is it

and now you've got the pakistani prime minister coming to the uk to give vameraon a telling off for saying they look both ways it's even less likely

they won't be buying neuclear smarts will they because they've got their own

i could see the benifit if it were india, because they are on the up, or china because they are on the up too, but helping pakistan and then telling everyone that it's going to help build relations is, i think, a bit more than just nieve, just keeping to the humanitarian side is enough, without needing to work into the equation that they'll be more ready to not train suicide bombers to blow more buses and tubes up

i don't think you can sway me on that arguement, or can you?

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

+1.

Absolutey right Gracie - but never mind 'every other country' - I didn't see ANY other country helping us....we should be getting our own house in order before giving any other country anywhere in any circumstances a penny. And that includes Haiti and everywhere else. Charity begins at home. If that makes me racist - so be it. I'll not be loosing a wink of sleep over it boys, trust me. It's got nothing to do with skin colour - it's this country's survival at stake.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

but it does, because the cost of buying blankets and tents here and then shipping them over would be more than just sending them the money to buy the stuff over there

but if they already have the stuff over there, why their government doesn't take it all and dish it out is beond me

DaveEscos

Lets hope they use this 10 mlyn to give them all swimming lessons!


edit.. 5 pager thread with accusations of racism over patriotism.. and chip is plastered all over it... SHOCK HORROR!

Escy

Think your thick comment was proved correct in the very next post.

Love the idea Pakistani officials giving out a couple of quid to each person affected

Rs Cosworth 1

You look after your own first, There's no comparing between glens wife and other people out of work and people dying but... This is OUR country and we've gotta get back up on our feet and 10mil sure might not be alot but every little help's,

Wonder if we were struck by a natural disaster would they flash 10mil at us? hmmmm,

Look after your own first FACT! Then you can hand charity out!.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Is that not exactly what we have done?

We've made sure that there is very good access to the basic healthcare and benefits in this country that people need to stay alive, and now we are handing some charity out to people FAR less fortunate than anyone over here?

Or do you mean make sure everyone has a widescreen tv and a cushy life first over here, rather than just make sure people's wellfare is taken care of?
How cushy does life have to be for us before you decide we are now taking care of our own enough to be able to spare a few quid for basic medicine for dieing toddlers?
36" tv?
50" tv?
swimming pool?

Escy

Everyone in this country is looked after, thats why we can help others now, there are benefits, healthcare, schools, etc

We all are doing pretty well, regardless of national dept

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Exactly.

Im sure lots of us would like to be richer, but we arent risking death from poverty on a daily basis (well other than a very small number of people who somehow manage to position themselves outside of the systems)

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Not really mate, we (the country) is BROKE, they wouldn't do the same for us if the tables were turned. Its not about letting people die, but how much of the money we send do you actually think goes toward helping the worst off?

Absolute fucking piss take, nothing to do with us, im sorry for the people it has happened to but the Pakistani government should have thought ahead and had a contingency fund. If i gave a tenner to every homeless person i saw i would be broke, and ultimately that tenner wouldn't have helped them THAT much. You can't help every one.

Rob,

Kam B

Dojj dont like Pakistan/i's, you make it proper obvious even in your old threads

Is your nose brower than the rest of you

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dont be ridiculous, we're nowhere near broke. We're spending 100 billion a year or whatever on armed forces, and massive numbers of health and education and the road network etc, sure it might not be paradise, but we are a long long way from broke even if you take into account the debts we have.


Its a pointless argument to try and have as the tables arent turned, but who knows what they would do if they were rich and signed up to all sorts of treaties to help poorer countries we were one of those poor countries and had a disaster.
Its like trying to guess if stephen hawking would be able to have mike tyson if he was fit and tyson was in a wheelchair

Yes it IS, its exactly about that, and not just people but the most vulnerable people of all, children and the elderly, who are the ones majorly at risk.

Hopefully more than half, but I doubt we will ever get an accurate figure back as it would cost more to collate than the amount we are sending.


Well we arent accountable for it, but we can do soemthing about it.
If I was walking along the river and your mother fell in, it would be nothing to do with me, but I would still jump in and save her.


Me too, and im happy to give the TWENTY PENCE that you resent them from your taxes.

If you are struggling economically anyway, how exactly so you then plan for massive amounts of contingency?
contigency is a luxury that MANY countries cannot afford!

If everyone gave a tenner to every homeless person they saw there wouldnt be any homeless people, its not an expensive problem to fix, the problem with a lot of hte homeless though is they dont actually want or arent in a position to benefit from (due to drug addiction or whatever) the help that we could give them with this money, where as the dieing children in pakistan really do.


No you cant, but I am of the opinion that innocent dieing children who are a victim of massively unfortunate weather circumstances should be right at the front of the que.

StephenC

So what your saying is because our country is not quite on its knees dying we have a responsability to help people less fortunate than us? WHY? nevermind morals, that counts for nothing these days. If you try and make everyone an equal, history has shown us what happens. Fact is, some people will be rich and some will be poor. Survival of the fittest and all that. If your that bothered chip how much have you sent over? What are you doing to help the poor children dying?! Theres children dying in our country from abuse/neglect, are you bothered about them or would you rather send £10 to pakistan to help them out? The arguement can go on to the n'th degree.All pigs are equal, just some are more equal than others!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I believe that people should help other people when they can do, thats how I lead my own life, within reason if I see someone requiring help that I can give I do so. Not on all occasions, Im not claiming I devote 24 hours a day to helping others, but I do feel that I do my bit.

Basic humanity

Maybe if someone inf your family gets cancer and benefits from the money that many of us have given to charity in that context you'll start to understand why we should mind morals, or maybe you are just a nasty cunt who will never care about anyone else or be greatful anyone else does.



Communism doesnt work, Im not saying everyone should be equal, im saying that everyone should at least have a chance at staying alive, nothing more than that really, I believe we give out FAR too much money in this country towards people on welfare living a nice life that they should be earning for themselves, basic ability to live such a roof over their head and enough for basic food is ALL we should give anyone IMHO, if they want more than that they should earn it (although I do believe we should create jobs to allow them to earn it).

Of course.


Id rather not detail the amounts I give to diferent charities on here TBH mate, i think thats very personal and not very relevant, on topic though I did give 50 quid to the biglee fund, is that close enough to home for you to feel it worthwhile? He's not foreign, so Im guessing that will be ok?


yes that is a cause I donate to as well

Right now I think 10 pound in pakistan can do more than 10 pounds in this country, so if someone only has 10 pounds they feel they are prepared to give I think it would be better sent abroad right at this moment in time.

I dont believe people are all equal, I just believe that toddlers shoudlnt be dieing from drinking filthy water when a couple of pounds worth of antibiotics can save them

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

i seen more sympathy o passionford for lee and sarahs dog murphy when he got run over and broke his hip.
it like getting advice on here for a problem you may have be it car or whatever ,if someone has the solution you require should they ask you what you can offer them in exchange for the anwser.their are 1.5 million children at risk in pakistan,who dont understand borders or countries ,or governments ,they just want to survive ,is that to much to expect

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Very well put!

StephenC

not at all, but how many million are there in the world?? Its just simply not possible to help EVERY single one, so how do you single out them that need it most? by picking the ones that are in the news that day? Id sooner sort my own doorstep out than starting sending it hundreds of miles away, but thats just me.

StephenC

pretty well put in fairness. It is in our human nature not to want to watch another human suffer, I quite agree with that, but when the world as a whole has so much suffering its plain to see that it will never be sorted, just one disaster to another, tsunami, floods etc, always on going and always something new each week sadly. Its not because theyre foreign (well, not entirely ) but as my previous post, Id rather make sure everyone close to us is sorted, daft as it sounds Id feel more responsible for those than them thousands of miles away. Youve got to draw a line somewhere.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Its an unfortunate fact that the young and old will and have died, i just don't agree with jumping to the aid of another country (that have very little to do with us) with a relatively small donation just to look good, surprisingly i would be happier to see a far larger donation with the hope of it actually doing some good and reaching the right people.


Rob,