muz

Right I understand the law. I can tow upto 3,500KG inc the tow vehicle as long as the tow vehicle exceeds the weight of the trailor and its load. Ideal.

Escort RS Turbos book Kerb Weight is 1080 KG So with the bits I've removed and the fact it doesn't have a gearbox, fuel or fluids in it's safe to say the car weights 1,000KG or just under.

As The load is over 750 KG I need a braked trailor. A Braked trailor is 495KG so my total load is 1,495 KG

I have a Subaru Forester tow car but it's kerb weight is 1,360 KG but it can tow 1,500KG

So technically I am 135KG overloaded if I were to tow the Escort, on a trailor with the Forester to Ford Fair on Sunday.

HOWEVER. What are the chances that I would actaully get stopped and taken to a weigh bridge etc and get in trouble? Bearing in mind I'm 23 and they may think it looks suspitious and worth a tug.

I'm not condoning breaking the law, but it's hardly murder is it.

saph4be

i would not risk it take it you don't have b+e on your license if you ain'nt and they catch you you will get done big time imo

fraser9764

iTrader: (3)

ive done it plenty of times, always tried to stay under weight but its normally tools and spares in the back of the van that would put me slightly over. not saying its right but ive never been caught
by the way i tow a 205 on a home made, pretty lightweight trailer, with a vw transporter t4.

muz

I've got a lighter trailor but it's not braked. I would have thought the would view this as worse as it's dangerous.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Even if you were to get the weight down low enough, you might still not be legal.

What is the trailer plated to?

If you tow an empty trailer that has a gross weight plate showing its allowed to carry 2 tonnes, but it only weighs 500kg, you are STILL over weight, and they dont even need a weighbridge to tell them that.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

any trailer over 750kg needs by law to have brakes

a frames are illegal for this reason

fraser9764

iTrader: (3)

but what is a home made trailer plated to carry?

on a side note, personnaly i think the towing laws should be tightened up, the amount of death traps ive seen (and towed ) on the road, i think there should be some sort of MOT.

alistairolsen

You wouldnt be done for overloading, youd be done for driving without a license if it went to court, so not worth the risk.

As CHip pointed out, its plated weight you need to worry about.

As for home made trailers, you can plate them to what you like as long as the components are suitable but plating a twin axle trailer on two 1 tonne axles and a 2 tonne hitch to 1300kg would look a trifle suspicious.

Agree on the MOT point but it would need to be a Ł20 check on brake efficiency and general corrosion, play in bearings and tyres. I suspect however someone would manage to fuck it up and make it prohibitively expensive (I have 5 trailers in the family....)

jonny s2

iTrader: (12)

dont you also need that on your license?? 1996 or before?? anything after you will be bummed anyway

jonny s2

iTrader: (12)

ive known people tow escorts with mondy vectra estates, so i would like to know the ins and outs also, as im looking into towing mine to track

ajamesc

At 23 u carnt tow anyway u have too have a b+e to tow with a car!

alistairolsen

Horse shit

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:

• a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas

• the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
• Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

So on a post 1997 driving license (category B only) you can tow a 750kg trailer regardless of anything except the manufacturers towing limit but you are limited to the gross weight and the relationship between the weights of tow vehicle and trailer.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive known people do over 100 up the motorway in mondys and vectras, doesnt make it legal.

Preston

If you passed your test post 97', then max towing weight is 750kg, i have both lgv 2 ( C & C1) and my psv (D & D1) and down to the fact that i past test after 97' i am still required to pass a trailer test to tow anything heavier. post 97' licences differ thou down to grandfather rights.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Incorrect.

As per Ali's post above quoting the official regulations, providing the total train weight is under 3,500kg MAM and the trailer weight doesnt exceed the tow vehicles unladen weight, so its perfectly legal to tow a 1500kg trailer with the right tow vehicle.

As per above, the normal license goes further than your incorrect understanding of it, but it obviously doesnt go as far as LGV2

PRE 97 you mean I assume?

muz

There are certain combinations of tow cars and trailors which make it ok. The chap at the hire place said he has a 19 year old lad who has a Clio he races and he hires one of their trailors and puts it on a Zafira and he's legal to drive it. I'm guessing a stripped out Clio is easily asbout 850 KG though.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Your 1500kg total would still be legal to tow if you just had a different tow car.

You need a tow car with a kerb weight > 1500kg and a MAM < 2000kg then you are legal.

3.2 vectra fits that IIRC

all that is wrong with your combination is you have too light a tow car like you mention

muz

Exactly Chip. The Forester is lighter than I expected at 1360kg! If I can find something around 1600/1800KG I should be ok. Will have a good look around.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you find something around 1800kg its likely to then have a MAM over 2005kg and you risk blowing the 3500 train weight rule with your 1495kg trailer!


you really need to be looking for something as near to 1500 as possible to keep the MAM down

My calibra tow car is 1390kg so on a light trailer my clio is legal to be towed behind it by my mrs who has a post 97 license.

muz

thanks Chip. Some good advice (and bad ) in the thread for people wondering what th can tow. Think a thread like this should be a sticky somewhere. Can't beleive a Calibra is heavier than a Forester!!! Lol.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Lol, its quite a heavy 4wd system on the calibra, a 2wd one is a lot lighter.

Garage19

So are you saying your Clio and trailor weigh less than 750kg??

Luca

iTrader: (2)

2110 combined I would presume.

edit - but must not weigh more than the tow car

I guess the clio is 900ish so a trailer of 470ish would be required to be legal?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I have 1390kg to play with as the maximum someone on a normal post 97 license can tow with my car legally, and im saying that the clio on a light trailer comes in at less than that, where on earth did you get a 750kg figure from?






Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
For example:

* a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 (1.39 in my case) tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 (1.39 in my case) tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle



Whereas

* the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
* Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

alistairolsen

No, hes saying the clio weighs less than the trailers capacity, trailers MA is less than the weight of the calibra and the trailer MAM and calibra are less than 3500kg.

Fuck me the rules are pretty explicitly written yet the number of times this has been covered on here and peoples difficulty grasping it makes it look like teaching monkey brain surgery

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its like as soon as people see that ONE POSSIBLE configuration is a car of upto 3500kg and a trailer of upto 750KG they stop reading and dont see the bit saying:
Its not exactly a complicated rule really, you can tow something that weighs as much as the cars kerb weight, providing the total MAM doesnt go over 3500.

So in the case of my car which is 1390 kerb and IIRC about 1900 gross, anyone can tow a trailer upto 1390 as that gives a MAM of 3290kg, which is perfectly well within the 3500kg allowed.

alistairolsen

indeed, the ideal is something like a volvo 850 or similar which is 1480kg and a fraction under 2 tonnes MAM but the biggest thing people overlook is ensuring the trailer is plated appropriately. Most twin axle car trailers are 1600, 1800 or 2000kg rated and you need to write to the manufacturer and get them derated to suit your tow vehicle

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yeah you want a trailer that is plated with exactly the same figure as the kerb weight of your tow vehicle, so 1390kg in my case, 1480kg in the case of the volvo 850 you mention.

any car much heavier than 1500kg is going to fall foul of the 3500MAM pretty quickly as its own gross weight is likely to be 500kg or so heavier than its kerb weight generally.

the mk1 kid

I'll put my hands up and say i'm 100% certain one minute then confused to hell the next!

I've read many of these posts and the problem is they are all cluttered with contradictions and confusing advise (as i see it).

It would be really helpful if a guide/sticky could be written with 3 or 4 different clear examples shown/worked out as a reference - or even better i bet it would be pretty easy to make a simple excel sheet in which you could just punch in your car/trailor/track weapons details and the formula worked it all out...

Tom

EDIT:

I wish it didn't matter what the MAM of the trailor was - i mean why does it matter whats its 'max load' is - surely it would be more appropriate to consider the train as it is, or is it a 'policing' thing?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

That is the ONLY post anyone ever needs to read on the subject, its easy to understand, its definitive and its accurate, and furthermore its from the DVLA website so is a trusted source!


There is nothing to be confused about, all you need to obey is:

1) Trailer plated weight is equal or less to cars kerb weight
2) Trailer isnt loaded over its plated weight
3) Car gross weight + Trailer plated weight is less than 3500kg

The only exception to that is if the car has a max tow weight lower than tis kerb weight but thats incredibally rare anyway TBH.


So with my real life example if I got the correct trailer for a post 97 licence like my mrs has:
My calibra = 1390 kerb weight, 1900 gross weight
My clio = 850kg
A trailer = 500kg and plated for 1390

1) Trailer plated weight is equal or less to cars kerb weight
Trailer = 1390
Car kerb weight = 1390
So yes this is allowed

2) Trailer isnt loaded over its plated weight
trailer 500kg
clio 850kg
total weight 1350kg is less than the 1390 plated weight

3) Car gross weight + Trailer plated weight is less than 3500kg
1390 + 1900 = 3290


Simple as that!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I would imagine its to make it easier to police, I agree though the actual weight seems more relevant, likewise for using the MAM of the tow vehicle, the fact one 1500kg vehicle has a higher MAM than another makes it MORE suitable not less for towing, but the rules say the opposite, lol

saph4be

this thread has confused the shit out off me what the fuck is MAM for a start?

alistairolsen

I have quoted that in every topic on this subject ive replied to. Secondhand explanation is always difficult unless its to simplify a topic. This doesnt need simplifying, they already provide a worked example if people bothered searching for it. This comes up monthly lmao.

MAM is Maximum Authorised Mass. (effectively gross weight)

Chip, they use the MAM of the car for the same reason, they can prosecute without a weighbridge.

The one lots of folk fall foul of is towing a horsebox with daddies rangerover.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Maximum Authorised Mass

How heavy a vehicle or trailer is allowed to be when fully loaded.

the mk1 kid

Legend, thank you - i'll save that!

Cheers

Tom

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

they very really stop you unless car/ trailer looks ropey ,lights out or look totally over loaded ,iv driven al over country with no bother ,just take it on the trailer youl be fine

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Agreed on that, the likelyhood of getting stopped is very slim.

It is still a possibility though.

the mk1 kid

Just looking on the web if you're buying new (i wish) there is a choice of suitable trailers with low gross weights.


Material Galvanised Steel
Internal Length (mm) - (ft in) 2641 - 8’ 8 ”
Internal Width (mm) - (ft in) 1651 - 5’ 5 ”
External Length (mm) - (ft in) 3850 - 12’ 8 ”
External Width (mm) - (ft in) 2110 - 6’ 11 ”
Gross Capacity (Kg) 1300
Estimated Payload (Kg) 980
Drawbar Type A-Frame
Number of Axles 1
Wheel Position out
Tyre Size 13.0

So a golf mk4 gt tdi 150 = 1388kg kerb weight
Braked tow weight = 1400kg
Above trailer gross = 1300kg
Stripped mk1 uno turbo = 800kg give or take
Only gross golf weight i'm unsure of, but all should be ok as the that cant be 2200kg!

Am i learning :S

Tom

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yep, that sounds spot on, you should be perfectly legal with that

Most single axle trailers liek that, even older ones, shouldnt be too much of a a problem,but most car trailers are twin axle so have both higher weight and much higher MAM

Garage19

Chip you have just made my day. I read ages ago and just picked up on the 750kg bit.

Right, next question. The law says i need to display a plate on the trailor showing date of manufacture, max weight per axle, nose weight of coupling and max gross weight.

If i make my own trailor can i just use the details from the axle component and coupling manufacturers and put my own plate on or do i have to get VOSA to inspect it?

PS. does anyone know anybody that supplys official looking ally plates like VIN plates?