Neil@FastFord

Firstly, FWD haters- Bore off! This aint a thread for you to bang on about being a roundabout Drift King and that FWD is shit.

Right. Tech chat on. What settings have people tried for track 'n drag.

Mines handling like a pig since changing a few things and i wanna look at some options.

I'm sure i used to run 4 degrees camber but i just cannot remember.

What you run? What for? Settings? And so on

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

What FWD car is it?

How much caster are you running?

How much toe are you running (in or out)?

RickyLee53

What tyres do you have? Where do you use it? Road, track? Wet/dry.

Neil@FastFord

Well it's for my FRST


But in the interest of a decent tech related thread, all makes n models for track 'n drag


It was set up ages ago and i changed loads recently and it is awful.

I "think" i was running 4 degree camber 'n 1.5 toe in.

Ricky- Currently on road tyres as i'm using it on the road. But it is primarly a track car, ran on Dunlops, R888's and Maxxis track tyres.

Used in all conditions. It used to be good but past couple of outings it has been vauge and suffered chronic understeer.

sas

Get a decent driver.

crazycage

2degree - camber and 1 degree toe out

Neil@FastFord

G.T.F....you bellsniffer! Either gimme some input or i'll tea-bag you next week!

Crazy- It has the 2 degree now as i said it will give me a decent start point. But it feels wrong

But good input, yours is road 'n drag aint it

sas

Not worried, I should get 2 laps in for each one of yours.

Just a thought - I bet its your carbon dive planes, they must be adding at least 100kg of down force to the front end, upsetting the balance of your chassis.

crazycage

yea road, my car pulls all over the show with any toe in mate.

Neil@FastFord

Honestly, i just hate you.

Everyone says you are really nice. They just don't know what a dry, sacastic cunt you really are!

Gimme some of your secrets, you turkey! If not. Fuck off. I'm trying to get a reasonable, tech related thread going here

Crazy- Mine was always a bit wayward on the road, but fine on track. Now it's torque steer central on the road and just really light, vauge and understeering on track.

Luca

iTrader: (2)

I agree!

Neil I have turned mine the other way round...

It grips just enough now

sas

Sorry, couldn't resist a cheep shot. Love you really.

Your toe out setting depends on the tyres slip angle, but between 1mm and 3mm toe out covers every option. Then again some road tyres never give a good sharp turn in.

Caster should be as much as possiable, this is camber on turns. So pull your wheels forward in the wheel arch or shift the strut tops rearward. More caster means you can run less static camber.

Camber is guaged using tyre temp, but as a easy option look and see if you are rolling over on the outside of the tyre, if you are, then more camber required.

If you find that your front wheels are understeering off at a corner you can opt for a stiffer RARB.

Simon.

Neil@FastFord

See, this is why i tolerate your lip!

Top stuff! Good post

It can handle like a pig on the road, as i can't push it too hard there, but something isn't right.

Funnily enough, i was talking about Rear roll bar ideas i got with Crazycage when i was round his at weekend. It's an area that probably needs to be addressed

Luca

iTrader: (2)

Thought you had twin roll bar??

Neil@FastFord

Aye, and it has been good before but got idea to do away with that and plate up the beam, welding in a 4mm steel plate. Will make it mega strong and apparantly work.

I can email you piccies dude

I'm running a wider track now and changed top mounts and lower arms, and had to lower the front to compensate.

I'll be getting a proper corner weight session done asap and considering some "rally spec" washers to get some rear camber

Luca

iTrader: (2)

I think corner weighted/geometry first then go from there before you change to much first..

Neil@FastFord

Yup, defo.

No time anyway yet, it will be a winter job if i go for a stripdown, stitch weld and repaint.

Like i said on the blower though, it feels a proper pig at the mo. It's ok on the road oddly, but real light back end, understeering something mental. no feel etc etc

gonna try and change the steering rack ends for rosejoint and then get set up. See what it comes out like.


This doesn't have to be just about my motor or Fiestas though. I'm curious what other cars and makes run for different applications.

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

Real light back end but understeers? That is proper odd.

Isn't it normally really light back end and oversteers or really heavy backend and understeers?

sas

You are taking weight off the overload front tyre by picking up the opposite rear wheel.

Neil@FastFord

Normally. And mine had a manageable level of grip. Controllable understeer when being pointlessly mean to the car and able to oversteer on lift off and correct.

If i made it oversteer, no way would i be able to correct it in the current state, it would just be a massive spin.


Anyone got any useful drag info or stuff on other models? Need more tech related threads in here boys.

turnover

other people seem to drive your car faster ,with no worries lol

Neil@FastFord

You again!! Fuckin' Zeberdee with a pot belly jumpin' up!

Can't start a thread without every cunt comin' out the woodwork gettin lippy!

Yes, Gordon did "marginally" beat my 0-60 after the fresh build. But at that point he'd driven it more than me. Never denied his one shallow victory. I still got better top end, thus proving he has tiny balls.

No way can he go round a track quick as he doesn't "get" why i want to be able to heel 'n toe or left foot brake in it. Loads has changed, at the moment the car is handling worse than it has ever done since ive owned it. That's over a decade

Now, fuck off!

JonnyBravo

As a starting point not bad advice.

What springs are you running.

DarrinDD

It tends to be the case to run toe out on FWD cars to aid turn in. When traveling, the wheels tend to get drawn inwards as opposed to outwards on RWD cars.

If you can adjust the caster, do it! Wind in that positive, which will help under braking and straight line speeds, and as said, effects the dynamic camber.

It all has to be tried and tested. So get a setting, try it, change it and try again.

Dont have too much toe out that the wheels start to scrub and too much heat is built up, will just set your tyres off quicker. Saying this, some toe in on the rear can often get some heat into them quicker. So try find the optimum.

JonnyBravo

I ran these settings :

Castor: +4degrees positive
Camber: -1.5degrees negative
Toe: +1mm toe out

I was on 350lb front springs and something around 400lb rears

The car was run with no anti roll bars as I never developed it to that extent but still cracked into the 8 min bracket round the ring with a stock xe engine

turnover

first thing is get your fuckin paper driveshafts sorted you northern monkey lol

Rick

biggest issue with Gary's car is the torque steer, not the turn in. On my Escort, it is much more stable which may be due to the electric power steering, but it's only ever seen about 14psi and is on longer ratios.

Rick

Neil@FastFord

Done! Then fucked the CV's after trying to break the shafts

Yeah Rick, i do have more torque steer now, but im running more power. I put it down to that and that i changed loads of stuff.

But just pottering around corners it feels bizarre.

TWoods

If your getting torque steer one method i found is to reduce toe out region of 1.5-3.5 degrees at expense of sharper turn in. To compensate 1.5-2 degrees toe in on rear aids stability i like to match this with much softer rear spring than many people 320lb front and 260lb rears with much harder damping.

Yes the car will feel more on the edge on turn in once there you can get the power down and rear will settle quickly and follow round. I find this better setup for inducing lift off oversteer as you know early on in the bend what the rears doing.

crazycage

the springs are just whatever comes in the avo coil over kit.

we are still working on the camber and toe settings ,but we can get any castor the fiesta arms are gay. may build my own set over the winter.

JonnyBravo

I can't comment about Avo stuff for example but the Nova stuff is always a mile off, its finding a happy compromise between road and track if you use it for both.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Neil, youve seen how well my clio handles, thats on

Castor : 3 degrees
Camber : 2 degrees
Toe out : 1 degree


Ive just set my corsa to the same, and its "totally transformed the car" to quote my rally driving mate who went out in it before and after, he was literally amazed it was the same car he drove the week before.

Its a really good ballpark to be starting with any FWD car IME, from minis to clios to the corsa and loads of other stuff for that matter.

Obviously everyone will have preferences for individual cars, ive ran more toe out on a few for example and if you can get even more castor on that will potentially help even more, but as a set of figures that will give any FWD car a sure footed feel i'll stand by them

andy130

iTrader: (2)

so 909 ones arnt great?

wirralphil

Do ford do 909 Fiesta arms?

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

biggest change and difference that was made to my clio was MASSIVELY going up on rear spring poundage. Has 800lb rear springs now and this really helps the front.

Get the car down to Mark Fish in Harlow. He is a genius with FWD. Won championships with Clios and Minis.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

toe in? bet thats fun? infact i know as i accidently run my witha few degrees in and it wa shit.

i run parrallel at the moment, though going back to 1 out

camber and caster i dont know, but i'm aiming for 2-3 camber and as much castor as poss

4 degrees camber? thats a lot how have you acheived this?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Would look like john wayne

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

him or the car ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Generally anything that increases rear end roll resistance will help to cut down on understeer personally Id sooner rely on an upprated ARB than just firmer springs though, especially if it needs to be a road car too.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

and i have done just that,

i have 309 beam which has thicker torsions bars (which is equivient to spings) but only a slight difference to 205, but what i have done is put a much thicker ARB on the rear,

the front then has a slight thicker ARB and 300lbs springs

and mine is "ok" at handling