Anyone watching this Raoul Moat situation develop on sky news!!?
07-07-2010, 12:26 PM
#81
Believe it or not, but a majority of Police Officers polled showed that they didnt wish to carry a firearm. Some felt that they didnt wish to be in a position to take a life, or some felt that they couldnt cope with aftermath of potentially having to shoot someone and the effect this would have on their life afterwards. Some dont relish the fact that they could be appearing in court charged with manslaughter or murder when they feel that they have simply done their job. Can you imagine not knowing your fate for up to 6 years?
Firearms officers are taken from volunteers and it would be wrong to make carrying compulsory. It is also about a persons capability of using a firearm compentently. Everyone knows how to pull a trigger, but can everyone hit the target they are aiming at? Can they make the right decision when to pull the trigger? .. not everyones cup of tea.
Firearms officers are taken from volunteers and it would be wrong to make carrying compulsory. It is also about a persons capability of using a firearm compentently. Everyone knows how to pull a trigger, but can everyone hit the target they are aiming at? Can they make the right decision when to pull the trigger? .. not everyones cup of tea.
Sure the law would have to be reveiwed so we have a modern police complaints and incident investigation system rather than the archaic system we have now. After all, its not economically viable to have cops suspended on desk duty for years until a decision is made over a shooting.
07-07-2010, 01:03 PM
#83
The US and many European police forces manage perfectly fine, so what makes us brits so fundamentally different?? nothing. Its just a perception.
Sure the law would have to be reveiwed so we have a modern police complaints and incident investigation system rather than the archaic system we have now. After all, its not economically viable to have cops suspended on desk duty for years until a decision is made over a shooting.
Sure the law would have to be reveiwed so we have a modern police complaints and incident investigation system rather than the archaic system we have now. After all, its not economically viable to have cops suspended on desk duty for years until a decision is made over a shooting.
This country prides itself
on policing by consent, ie, you do as I ask because you are a sane and reasonable person.Elsewhere, you do as I say because I have a gun and I will use it, then I will be backed up by my bosses so screw you and jump as high as I demand. Would you go to Spain and argue with the cops? Would you go to Russia, have you seen how the Orientals treat you?
The public and media in this country nearly always look to blame the police first if there is a police killing, then if it is found out officers acted lawfully the media lose interest and no one gets to hear about it. Good god, a few years back come loon pointed a shotgun at two armed officers so they killed him. There was uproar in the press, stating how they should have used less lethal force. His family even moaned that the officers should have rang the loonies doctor before deciding what to do!!!!! Has the world gone mad.
Initially I was all for police being routinely armed, but my opinion has changed over the last few years. Yes, the world is becoming a more dangerous place, there do 'seem' to be more and more officers shot in the line of duty. BUT, good lord should you act reasonably and lawfully kill someone your life becomes a living hell. Until this changes and the police become rather more hardened to public perception, tell the world to stuff off and get on with policing, then no guns for moi.
07-07-2010, 01:25 PM
#84
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07-07-2010, 01:35 PM
#85
Regular Contributor
Yeah his lass said her bloke was a copper lol erm great idea that turned out to be,yeah the cops said the net was closing yesterday morning lol taking there time it seems.
07-07-2010, 01:55 PM
#87
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fails to mention he came out the house with a metal bar in his hand, whats that gonna do against a shotgun??
the press are an arse in that they are mentioning what they want to,they interviewed one of his mates in newcastle yesterday and what they reported aint what he actually said
the press are an arse in that they are mentioning what they want to,they interviewed one of his mates in newcastle yesterday and what they reported aint what he actually said
07-07-2010, 02:13 PM
#88
fails to mention he came out the house with a metal bar in his hand, whats that gonna do against a shotgun??
the press are an arse in that they are mentioning what they want to,they interviewed one of his mates in newcastle yesterday and what they reported aint what he actually said
the press are an arse in that they are mentioning what they want to,they interviewed one of his mates in newcastle yesterday and what they reported aint what he actually said
But the press make more money if they paint him as a crazy lunatic that everyone thought was a nutcase for years... its ridiculous really, but if every interview said "waye aye, he was one of lifes reet good cunts spuggie" then people wouldn't be so fearful of him and so wouldn't be too fussed if he was roaming around the countryside.
*edit* ...he's obviously got issues and probably would have benefitted from some sort of professional help, but the fact he's evaded a serious amount of 5/0 for so long would suggest to me that he's not off his rocker at all. Unlike that fucking bell end taxi driver Bird who went tits for a few hours before ending himself, he was so crazy and deranged (sp?) that he couldn't have lasted/dodged Police for much longer even if he hadnt smashed his mong bus.
Cheers,
Grant
Last edited by RS Grant; 07-07-2010 at 02:17 PM.
07-07-2010, 04:17 PM
#90
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It's quite obvious he is mentally ill and has been tipped over the edge. Being able to evade capture for so long is a sign of intelligence as opposed to mental stability. Explains why the bloke in this thread thinks he's quite a nice bloke. Absolutely no excuse for shooting people mind you. He was lucid enough to write that the public should not fear him in his letter though, which does reflect some form of guilty feeling and responsibility.
Hope they don't kill the bloke. At the very least when people who do this sort of thing kill themselves/are killed by firearms officers the circumstances remain somewhat unexplained and they receive no actual punishment. Being stuck in prison is obviously a certain degree of mental punishment or Ian Huntley and Harold Shipman wouldn't have wanted to try (and in Shipman's case succeed in) topping themselves.
Hope they don't kill the bloke. At the very least when people who do this sort of thing kill themselves/are killed by firearms officers the circumstances remain somewhat unexplained and they receive no actual punishment. Being stuck in prison is obviously a certain degree of mental punishment or Ian Huntley and Harold Shipman wouldn't have wanted to try (and in Shipman's case succeed in) topping themselves.
Last edited by Isaac.Hunt; 07-07-2010 at 04:18 PM.
07-07-2010, 06:17 PM
#92
IMO the problem is not the ability of society to cope, being able to find enough people skilled to do it, mental strain on officers of using force etc but weakness by the police senior management in supporting the actions of its own officers and poor procedures for dealing with police shootings.
the media only jump on it because they can get away with it unchallenged.
07-07-2010, 07:07 PM
#93
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I dont agree that at this time that officers should be routinely armed. Although there are several firearms incidents across the UK they are sufficiently dealt with by existing Police firearm departments. There are obviously exceptions to the rule where an incident such as this one occures in a county force, and as such dont have the resources available to them. On rare occasions such as these it is then necessary for other forces to assist. If this incident occured in London for instance, then there would be more than sufficient armed officers to deal with this one, and any other threats posed to officers by firearms.
I agree with Arch that there are more incidents where Police are shot at, but these are still a rarity.
I honestly believe that physical assault with either sharp or blunt weapons pose a more significent risk to the officers, and as such I believe that Taser should be issued to all.
At this time the Police cannot simply afford to arm the service. They would have to factor in the cost of purchasing the weapons, training, armouries at every Police station etc etc, and then they wouldnt be able to cope with the extractions to allow their officers to train. Currently the basic level firearms officers have to shoot at least every 3 months, tactical training twice a year, and be enhanced first aid trained. If you think how many officers there actually are in the UK then that is a lot of training that needs to be done, the Police simply couldnt handle it in this country as they do not have enough facilities or the funds available.
Warren for someone who isnt in the Police, I actually think you are bang on with your comments above. There needs to be more support to the officers who are involved in shooting incidents and they should be dealt with as victim themselves, not as potential suspects.
I agree with Arch that there are more incidents where Police are shot at, but these are still a rarity.
I honestly believe that physical assault with either sharp or blunt weapons pose a more significent risk to the officers, and as such I believe that Taser should be issued to all.
At this time the Police cannot simply afford to arm the service. They would have to factor in the cost of purchasing the weapons, training, armouries at every Police station etc etc, and then they wouldnt be able to cope with the extractions to allow their officers to train. Currently the basic level firearms officers have to shoot at least every 3 months, tactical training twice a year, and be enhanced first aid trained. If you think how many officers there actually are in the UK then that is a lot of training that needs to be done, the Police simply couldnt handle it in this country as they do not have enough facilities or the funds available.
Warren for someone who isnt in the Police, I actually think you are bang on with your comments above. There needs to be more support to the officers who are involved in shooting incidents and they should be dealt with as victim themselves, not as potential suspects.
Last edited by fish99; 07-07-2010 at 07:26 PM.
07-07-2010, 07:24 PM
#94
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ive met the bloke a good few times. he used to work on the door with one of my best mates about 10 year ago. i had conversations with him back in the day, was always a bit strange, but seemed like a decent lad, always had some banter. couldnt believe it when i first heard the story.
07-07-2010, 09:47 PM
#95
not right now, i agree with you there, but the way our society is in social decline, the increase in certain types of crime etc etc then unless something is done to sort our society out in the next 10 years or so then i see it as innevitable that we WILL reach a point where the daily threat to officers and public justifys all police being armed.
unless of course this country is sorted out! But on balance can we really see that happening any time soon??? not really. weve got hard times ahead for the next 10 years at least and crime will flourish and become more desperate and nasty in that time.
i agree there.
true but as i was saying above when the risk to officers is too great the police will simply have to find the funds. It would then obviously be an executive issue to be sorted by parliament.
I know people in the police and have worked with them in the past so ive had it from the horses mouth as it were how officers just doing their job too often get fucked over in the name of an "impartial investigation" which is biased against the officer from the start in the so called name of openness.
unless of course this country is sorted out! But on balance can we really see that happening any time soon??? not really. weve got hard times ahead for the next 10 years at least and crime will flourish and become more desperate and nasty in that time.
true but as i was saying above when the risk to officers is too great the police will simply have to find the funds. It would then obviously be an executive issue to be sorted by parliament.
I know people in the police and have worked with them in the past so ive had it from the horses mouth as it were how officers just doing their job too often get fucked over in the name of an "impartial investigation" which is biased against the officer from the start in the so called name of openness.
08-07-2010, 07:48 PM
#97
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i live in northumberland and the whole thing is mad 250 plus armed cops 2 or 3 choppers and they cant even find him , if he hadent of shot the copper they would not be looking for him on this scale !!, he is just a ginger steriod freak !!!
08-07-2010, 08:16 PM
#99
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08-07-2010, 08:20 PM
#100
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You know you are in shit when the news starts saying the SAS are joining the search!
But if they don't find him... That will leave them looking a bit silly!
But if they don't find him... That will leave them looking a bit silly!
08-07-2010, 08:50 PM
#102
st170 breaking
i kinda hope he disappears and doesnt resurface
i like the idea of getting away and never get found but then its a long time to hide, look at the old dudes they pull out of the woodword over war crimes
i guess i see that one day it may be me who has to jump ship and go underground
unlikely but would be a kick arse adventure
like in home and away
08-07-2010, 09:18 PM
#104
Professional Waffler
I heard the Lexus he was using is up for sale now, he only wants coppers for it.
Apparently the police are offering Ł10k reward for his arrest. It goes up to Ł20k next week, it's a Raoul over.
Poor taste?
Apparently the police are offering Ł10k reward for his arrest. It goes up to Ł20k next week, it's a Raoul over.
Poor taste?
08-07-2010, 09:24 PM
#105
st170 breaking
08-07-2010, 10:14 PM
#106
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to be fair, sam (his ex) only tolded him she was goin out with a copper was so that he wud not go round her house as she was scared of him, he had been beating her up throughout their on/off relationship for years. plus, shes only really a kid herself, shes only 22 n he is 37. she was with him for 6 years, since she was 16.
09-07-2010, 09:46 AM
#109
A) I recokn he's either dead- (shot himslf somewher quiet and they haven't found the body yet, hence why they have no trace of him OR B) Nowhere near the area at all.....In addition, can they just use the same type of infra red they use on police camera action/road wars to sweep the area over and over, SURELY they see something???? i find this very strange!
09-07-2010, 12:54 PM
#113
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09-07-2010, 01:17 PM
#117
rambo was supposed to be an ex special forces hero who lost the plot!!
Raul is a criminal misfit.
hardly a fair comparison
Plus in Rambo he was abused by the police, they beat him up, wrongly arrested him. "they drew first blood"
from what the media are saying Raul has NO genuine reason for complaint and has just lost the plot and gone postal.
so not the same as rambo at all
Raul is a criminal misfit.
hardly a fair comparison
Plus in Rambo he was abused by the police, they beat him up, wrongly arrested him. "they drew first blood"
from what the media are saying Raul has NO genuine reason for complaint and has just lost the plot and gone postal.
so not the same as rambo at all
09-07-2010, 01:25 PM
#120
so you think a psycho girlfriend whos shagging a copper is legal justification to go round shooting people???
He is a convicted criminal, FACT. If he has beef with the police its because hes a criminal. But i say, do the crime, do the time and if you cant take being treated like a fucking scum by the cops then dont commit crime.
He has no good reason for his actions. plain and simple.
He is a convicted criminal, FACT. If he has beef with the police its because hes a criminal. But i say, do the crime, do the time and if you cant take being treated like a fucking scum by the cops then dont commit crime.
He has no good reason for his actions. plain and simple.