CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Have taken a major liking and interest in Politics this last couple of months.

The country uses First-Past-The-Post voting system at the moment. How does PR work? Im guessing that as Lib Dem want this then it is something to help the smaller parties get power and seats within the house of commons but i cant work out how it actually works.

There has been a good few debates on here recently around the election and government so hopefully someone has an understanding of this. What does it actually mean.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Seems i'm not the only one who doesnt fully understand it. 20+ views but no reply.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

I remember doing it during Modern Studies at school in 1993 but fucked if i remember

Paddy

Proportional Representation is in it's basic form counting up the percentage of overall votes and allotting seats in parliament accordingly.

So if [as an example] Lib Dems get 20% of overall votes, they get 20% of the seats. they may not in the current way of things, get even 1 seat as they could lose out in each local by election.

At the moment though, we vote for a candidate/party and if they win the local election, they get the seat. they may however win with either a small majority or a low % of votes.

I remember hearing in the last election for example [2005 or whenever it was] the lib dems would have had a lot more seats if they worked by proportional representation.

I don't know the ins and outs but that's basically it.

Chris69

It means put simply that each seat will be decided by the same amount of voters or at least a lot closer than it is now.
that way the vote % will be closer than it is cuurently to the seat numbers.
Lib dems want it which is very understandable in there position-
lib dems - 23% vote, 57 seats
Labour - 29% vote, 258 seats
not a very fair reflection of votes/seats this why they want a reform of the system.
thats how i understand the basics of it but i'm sure theres a lot more to it and a different way PR could be implemented for a fairer voting system.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

depends how its organised there are several different types of PR voting. in essence what the politicians were whinging about was the fact that in some areas due to the boundary splits between constituancies there can be a vastly different number of people voting to get the seat. eg in one area you might have 10000 people able to vote for one seat, in another area you might have 100000. so in theory you could have a disproportionate number of seats to one party when in reality the raw number of votes would show another party is more popular nationwide.

The two systems commonly known under "proportional representation" are Single Transferable Voting and Alternative voting. AV is similar to now except instead of a single x you put a ranking so 1st choice, 2nd etc. If say you had a hung parliament like now the second choice votes are taken into consideration. In STV each seat is split into its constituancy and its determined the candidate has to get a certain qouta of votes to get the seat. the person who votes has preferences similar to AV. if someone votes for BNP or some other looser party in that area with no hope of getting in, then their vote is transferred to their second choice to prevent the vote being wasted.

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

This should help explain it a little:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...on/default.stm

I tried writing my own explanation but it made no sense to me.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The libdems are going to be fucked at the next election I reckon, as everyone will now have realised that voting for them is just giving your vote away to someone who then decides to give it to labour or conservative, which im sure people would sooner do themselves than have nick clegg do it for them.

PR would make hung parliments even more common, and would give seats to all the idiot fringe parties like the BNP etc.

I think the alternative system labour is putting forward is a reasonable option, but first past the post isnt as flawed as people make out IMHO

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

What's their new idea? You're only allowed to vote for people with one eye?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Surprised at you stooping quite that low in an attempt at humour TBH

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Surprised at you being surprised at me stooping so low TBH.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im surprised at you being surprised at me being surprised at you stooping so low.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Well if I agree to stop stooping, it will hopefully put an end to all this unwanted surprising!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I didnt expect that

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

If Labour are putting it forward it's got to be related to socialism which is never a good thing.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

It's never a good thing... unless you're a socialist that is.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting 30 min programme on bbc1 just now. Anyone see it? can see this dragging on for a while yet

Rod-Tarry

It dont work Rich, must have an outright winner IMO to have any chance of getting things done. Remember the Lib/Lab pact most shite goverment of all time spent all the time trying to find common ground & did FA.
Hope Brown stays on with help of Liberals because this next 4 years will see the goverment be the most unpopular ever as people realise we all have to cough up at least 3k extra each just to pay the debt. Hopefully pensioners will be a protected species, but i will feel sorry for you guys honest!!

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Brown wont be staying Rod. Two-faced Clegg has made it clear he wont work with Gordon so he has said he will go in an attempt to get a co-alition government LABLIB.

Im not kingmaker Nick says. Not much there is a very good reason Libs are such a small representative party and they are proving it now!

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Its all a fucking disaster !

Even I could organise them better

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Surely in the economic interests of the country, the next time we are due an election, instead of wasting money collecting everyone's votes, we could just ask Nick Clegg, or maybe even toss a coin?

Reality is that it makes fuck all real difference anyway, its a bunch of bastards who I dont want in whichever party gets in, our democracy is a farce as its just a choice between two things I dont want, then because there has been a choice involved we're told that we picked them.
If someone asks you if tonight you want to be punched in the face or kicked in the bollocks, then it really isnt giving you much opportunity for having a decent evening, and likewise if someone asks you to pick tory or labour its not giving you much opportunity for a decent government.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Its almost underhand tatcis by Nick Clegg at the moment. Why on earth would he even consider making a deal with Labour when the leader of Labour is due to step down and therefore Clegg doesnt know who he is getting into bed with so to speak. Power games from smeggy cleggy im afraid. Of course LABLIB coming together still doesnt give overall majority and they will have to rely on the others to join the party.

If Labour manage to stay in power then we will have yet another un-elected prime minister. Thats going to happen anyway if Cameron becomes PM but at least his party got more seats rather than losing a hundred.

The country hasnt decided who it wants in power and instead of the 3 main parties taking this on board and trying to make a government that will move the country forward we are left with Clegg being kingmaker and playing one off against another.

Utter farce but a very interesting and debatable situation. Shame i didnt take more interest years ago.

didnt anyone see this on Sky news? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ns-legacy.html

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Almost?

Its entirely underhand tactics, he has his own distinct agenda on PR and its got fuck all to do with what is best for the country, if the counrty wanted PR then the liberal wallies would have got a lot more votes.

For the same reason every politician tends to do anything, it suits his greed for power.

Why would he care? He just wants to achieve PR, he doesnt give a fuck what hte country has to lose in order for him to gain in

I suspect it may be a long time before we actually have a properly elected PM again! I woudlnt be surprised if a hung parliment becomes the norm.



Lets face it though the vast majority of this country are a bunch of uneducated fuckwits who I dont want to decide who runs the country anyway