Has it been done before?

Been thinking about this for a while I like the look of the mk2 st24 but don't like the FWD aspect of it seems such a waste, if it's been done before has anyone any info on it?

Also I no the bug eyed Scorpio had a RWD cosworth version but was all the late scorpio's RWD and does the mondeo have any familiarity's with the scorpio cosworth floor pan?

This has been bugging me for a while I want a RWD car next but want to keep it ford and don't want a sierra (just preference), just trying my options and having a think through would like to get a nice project on the way to keep me busy in what spare time i'v got

Cheers in advance

 

The Mondeo has nothing in common with either the Scorpio or Sierra, except the Ford badge.

You'll be looking at making a Frankenstein's monster/cut'n'shut with the floorpan out of a Sierra/Granada/Scorpio and gluing it to the Mondeo shell to make a RWD Mondeo. Or, find a 4x4 Mondeo and do what Andy Rouse did with the first Touring Car Mondeos - disconnect the front wheels from the drivetrain.

 

Same way they did the RWD cavaliers, easy to replicate too, just replace the transfer box internals with a solid bar and remove the front driveshafts.

 

IIRC the mondeo shares its platform with the s-type of the same era. Could be an option? I was considering doing something like this to mine, jag axle, jag v6 and rwd gearbox, etc.....

Chris

 

Im not aware of any longitudinally mounted engine on that floorpan, all the jags involved were FWD or 4WD like the mondeo was IIRC

 

no its shared its platform with the x-type jag, but i think a lot of the x-types were 4x4

the s-type v6 is the mondeo v6 but the other way round in a RWD setup, with manual box as well

 

the sierra was just a narrow granada/scorpio, the bug eye scorpios even went to 4 stud wheels the same as the sierra, and most if not all the running gear from a granada/scorpio will fit a sierra,

as for mondeo, not sure how strong the 4x4 axles are, but it would be worth using till it went bang, then look at changing.

 

cheer's lads some good info here.

what sort of power was the touring cars making and where they quite reliable with the transfer box working in the way it was, not having to replace the floor pan would be nice but depends on pro's and con's, and what sort of power loss do you get from running the engine transversley instead of longitudinaly.

i'm not looking for big power tbh might even keep it N/A 2ltr zetec just with a tune to make it more zippy, mainly to make it nice and reliable and as it'll be a daily driver and i do a few miles it'll keep the fuel costs down a bit

also how strong where the rear arms and subframes on the 4x4 mondeo's will they take all the power from the engine, or will it be more of diff issues and such like, i'd like to not have the fear of chewing something up whilst having a play.

one last thing the talk of jag x type i knew they where a decendant of the mondeo and thats where the jag 4x4 drive system was tested but i got confused with the talk of the s type are you implying the floor pan of the s type has familiarity's with the x type and the mondeo or am i getting the wrong end of the stick here.

cheer's guy's like said some top tips for me and others here

 

The touring cars were around 300bhp, but about the only standard bit of the transmission would have been the casings! (IF THAT!)

 

was that 300bhp with the 2.5 v6 chip, and i would of gathered as much with it mostly being modded, such a shame they never did a rwd version of the mondeo, looks like not many if any body has done it though so would be a good venture me thinks.

 

V6 but destroked down to get it under the 2litre capacity limit, almost no components on it were standard production items, just the block and head castings basically!
Was massively off the pace when running RWD though, so they went back to FWD.

 

OK,

The MK2 Mondeo shares very little in common with the Jag so any ideas of using Jag parts is out of the question.

The touring cars used a very diffrent setup as the front drive shafts foul on the sump of the standard V6 and hence they used a diffrent gear and transfer box.

The MK1 Mondeo 4x4 isn't a bad starting point but the transfer box is the weakest point in the whole setup and have been known to go bang at around the 230bhp mark.

The only conversion I have ever seen in Martin's Reyland Cosworth Mondeo as there does not seem a lot of point in doing just a RWD version.

 

The transfer box internals would be replaced by a solid bar if you were going rwd, so what part of it broke? cause if its anything other than the input gear it shouldnt be a problem at all really.

 

Ok so jag is off the list, what sort of bhp loss would you get running it with the solid bar transfer box system would you be loosing 4wd power figures and only getting 2wd, cos that would seem such a waste.

And I suppose the last would be to build my own tranny tunnel and make or adapt a rear subframe, what sort of things will need to be considered to make it structually safe regarding chassis stiffness and such like, and is there much in the resto section of here I can look at for a bit of guidence.

Cheers

 

the driveshaft onthe drivers side has a built in diff in it which sends the power to the rear, so by just putting a shaft in the way i don't think you'd get away with it

it's like the 4wd cossie set up, but sideways

it's very hard to explain wihtout pics, i'm sure i've got one somewhere that i'll put up and it will explain everything but basicly you have the output from the gearbox going into a diff which then goes to the other wheel and the rear

better still, imagine a rwd car set up, but imagine one of the wheels is attached to the gearbox, you then get power going to the diff and then to the other wheel AND back along the propshaft

so you'd need to weld the diff to give it no transmission losses

but you'd also need to weld up the other driveshaft that would be the other side of the "wheel"

i'll draw a picture, it'll be easier

 

does that help explain better?

 

werent all the 4x4 mondeis 2 litre zetec not st24?

 

yup

and the touring cars were sleved down 2.6 v6 engines, turned upside down to allow the driveshafts to run through the centre of the V in order to improve their weight distribution and centre of gravity

 

Yes they where also the mk1 shape and I'd prefer the mk2 and the st24's where galvanised so less likely to rust and the same reason why alot of the st24's are still in quite good nick .

And cheers dojj for the info put me into a different frame of mind anyway

 

one more avenue to investigate though, the yanks use a bolt in subframe to fit v8's to their mk1 fuci, i'm sure, with a few mods, you could do the sme for the mondeo

only downside is that the kit costs Ł4k

 

http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/

 

Dojj, its not actually the driveshaft that sends the power into the transfer box, it comes off the diff directly, it just looks like its the driveshaft as they connect together.

Well thats based on:
a) a really really good understanding of the vauxhall cavalier setup
b) the fact that when I looked at a 4wd transmission a mate of mine had it looked the same

So im only 99% sure im correct not 100% so someone correct me if im not, but if you think about it, it would be ridiculous to hang the entire rear end off the output from one side of the diff like you are saying, as if the front wheel on the other side span no power would go anywhere else.
Where as what I am saying is its driven off the same output from the box that the front diff is driven, so the box is essentially connected to the front diff and the rear VC seperately.

 

They are destroked more than sleeved down, the bore is very similar, its the stroke thats greatly different (cant remember exact numbers)

 

cheaper to send a mondeo up to AG motorsport!

 

i've got several gig's worth of pictures that i'm currently trawling through to find that one that shows it like i've described

can't try harder than that

 

Sounds like a load of aggro for what will be a very ordinary car IMHO.

 

Yes very true dan that's why I'm looking at the options, BUT! Once the 2ltr zetec is in if it really became a project then it opens many doors, I could put a blower on it or turbo as long as the base for it all is there, i'm sure 200bhp isn't hard to pull from a N/A zetec with some head mods and reletivly little spend yea it's not a monster but I'm sure it'll make for an ok drive and still have some fun in.

Or look towards putting the v6 in having it in the car longitudinally will maybe make the heads a bit more reliable then it's open to twin turbo mods and such like, would be good if no one has done it yet.

 

This page has more info on the Mondeo 4x4 BTCC cars:

http://www.supertouring.co.uk/the_cars/ford_mondeo.html

 

Cheers for that info, I thought as much with the power loss, just shows the only options is either a standard 4wd or a full rwd transformation, would be good to do, even rouse thought it was a good idea I'm just suprised that no one has done this yet.

Well let's hope I don't just leave it a dream and actually put it into practice, would be a real good project and I'd do all the work myself so wont become a massive costly build.

 

Losing an extra 10bhp on a touring car is a massive big deal but on your road car it won't be

 

Is that quoted figures chip I haven't had chance to read the link only what's been put on this page, yea 10bhp isn't alot to loose I must admit.

 

No, thats my guess of the output versus a conventional rwd box at 200bhp not a quoted figure.

 

There is a technical guide to the mondeo 4x4 drive train here.

http://fordwiki.co.uk/index.php/MTX7...al_Information

 

Sod that, just RWD YB it with a 2wd floorpan!

 

It really isnt that simple, the steering for a start would be totally incompatable, plus then you would have a shite engine for day to day use anyway.

 

Surely it cant be that hard, plenty of people are cutting up 2wd Saffs for the floorpans to put in other Ford models so I cant see a Mondeo being that much difference......infact I would presume it would be easier as a Mondeo and Sierra are of similar size?

 

Its possible, but its actually a lot of work, just like it is with a focus or whatever, the mondeo is absolutely no easier to convert as it still has all the same issues with regards to the front end.

The problem is that your new engine and gearbox are sitting where your old steering rack was, and you cant move the rack without also changing all the uprights etc as well.

 

as said , for me it would be to convert the mondy shell, and buy a donor saff

it wouldnt even have to be a cossie if your going moderate power,

then once you have a rolling shell, decide on the motor and box ,

24v v6 cos motor would be a good allround useable engine ,

beef

 

chip im sure theres a lad up our war that was rinnung his mk4 rst in rwd form ,he used a 4x4 cossie cradel , iirc the steering rack mounts on the rear of it , he then just adapeted his steering arms to suit his standard upright steering mount , ?



possably an option re the steering issue and tryinbg to keep cost down ,

beef

 

you sound confused beefy, as a cossie 4wd steering rack is mounted at the front of the car and the struts have steering arms that go forward to join to the trackrod ends


I really do think you have got the wrong end of the stick somewhere mate!