dojj

iTrader: (3)

it's like you helping your mate out when soemthings gone wrong
if you can help fine, but if your mate then expects you to fork out from your own pocket and help out when you've got your own shit to sort out that starts to sour the relationship between the "mates"
even worse when you start giving it billy big bollcoks and flashing the cash to boost your ego when your kids are sitting at home eating raw potatoes

sounds a bit different now doesn't it

RichardPON

Couldn't agree more.

Note that the replies are usually always from the least educated people who haven't ventured further than the shop at the bottom of their road in their tinpot little town to buy their copy of the Sun and bleat about how this country's "going downhill".

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

And you really can't see what's wrong with saying that can you. *slaps forehead*

MikeR

I certainly dont consider the likes of Christian un educated

Mike

MikeR

Whilst l am not saying l agree entirely with everybodys view, l certainly would argue that l am well enough travelled to make a comment and 50 million will help but when the datum you are trying to get people back to is a 3rd world country it really isnt taking them to a level of self sufficientcey that would benifit them long term, for Haiti to be so close to other very developed countrys and be in the state it is prior to the earth quake is shocking, you need to try and help yourself before other help you

Mike

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

personally no i dont think we should send them money infact i dont think anyone should of.

us and the world should use money given and raised etc to send them USED jcbs, USED lorrys, new medicines, different size tents, bottled water, and send few flights full of people who want to help for free ie drs, nurses, people who wanna clear rubble etc. then its up to them what they do with it either sort themselves out and flurish or which would probably happen and not

RANJ

and would you expect the same should the uk have a natural disasyer like this ?

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

But not helping them because somebody else should, or because they're already 'too far gone' is a very nihilistic take on the situation.

I think it's desperately tragic that people can watch the news stories on TV and see (in particular) the Haitian kids suffering, and still come out with lines like "charity begins at home".

MikeR

You are assuming that we all share the same mentality and culture Ranj

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Unreal.

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

i think we would have helpers yes but i think we would sort ourselves out and help ourselves.

MikeR

Dan there is a culture in places like Haiti that is not conducive to a positive stable forward thinking self helping society, yes they should be helped but this problem is also very important to allow them to be more self sufficient, the mentality of the world owes them a living is wrong, it is a cultrule difference, but none the less one that exisits atleast in the majority.

Out of interest what charitys do you give to each year?

Mike

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

read the rest. love how people cut bits out on here lol

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

I don't read The Sun.

RANJ

to late to think when the shits hit the fan and everything around you is destroyed inc law and order.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

As Mike said, all those taking the moral high-ground. How big is your standing order to the British Red Cross or Unicef each month?

MikeR

How much Law and Order do you think exisits in Haiti Ranj ?

Mike

RANJ

£10 to unicef
£10nspcc
£10 cancer research
and sponser a child aswell

RichardPON

I also said usually.

Read into that what you will.

project rs

don't get me wrong feel for these people was in area when it happened and a few days rior to that a volcano also in that area was/is playing up and you haven't heard a sniff of that. 50 mill is not going to do much when 1 billion is already been given in aid so i think it would be better off at moment going to the areas of britain trying to recover after last years floods.

RANJ

your comparing a pretty much 3rd world country to a developed one, ? aint we all human ?

MikeR

fair play, why these charitys though? what makes them more important then the RSPCA or RNLI or any other charity for that matter?

Mike

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

but having chq for £xxxxxx doesnt sort that out. having money but everything is fucked you cant spend it. surely its better to have a shit load of diggers to dig mass graves, clear rubble, clear streets so aid can get through. do you know what i mean. if countrys sent vans, lorrys etc then can get on with it and quicker to get them to get back on there feet. giving them a chq for so much money is probably made them richer than they were before the quake. just think there is better ways than saying heres a chq

MikeR

Yes that is exactly the point it is pretty much third world for a reason, so getting them back to the state they were before the earth quake aint really doing much other then leaving them in a dump again, there is a bigger picture here a plaster on a bullet wound does not work

Mike

RANJ

cancer research as my grand parents died from it,
nspcc - some kids deserve better then what life has dealt them
unicef- incase one day im fucked aswell
and sponser a child, just doing my part for a poor kid

RANJ

who is paying for the logistics etc ? its not as easy as that

MikeR

So all emotive choices

Mike

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

While I appreciate, and understand the sentiment of what you're saying, the reality is that they need help. Once there is a level of stability, then any assistance should be directed at making the country more self sufficient, and no, that shouldn't be our responsibility.

Maybe my view is just because I'm a parent, and I see the kids suffering and wish that they weren't. And maybe should look at the situation less emotively, but I can't.

Clearly baiting, but anyway... I give a small amount (in real terms) to the NSPCC by direct debit.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Maths not your strong point is it!

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

challange annaka used to do ok

but seriously i just think there are better ways than giving money. i agree it wont be straight away im sure somethings could be done straight away but if its agreed right at the start to get the ball rolling it would be there by now. i think its good that people help others im all for it but paying it off i dont think helps, it does later on but having things getting cleared, people getting food, water, shelter helps more than a chq in ya presidents bank account sitting there then think now what do we need to do. action is better. if things are shit later on then loan like we had at the end of ww2

FastFordChris

give a man a fish and he can feed his family for a day, teach him how to fish and he'll feed his family for a lifetime...

we should be teaching these people how to help themselves not throwing money at them.

MikeR

Not baiting a genuine questions, people l would think generally give to subjects that are emotive to them, as per Ranj

Mike

RANJ

yup im a parent and my son is a very lucky boy, he dont go without, and then you see kids who have lost family. home, you aint human if you dont feel anything towards them, and if only a tenner a month makes me feel better and contributes towards them then so be it,

isnt charity about being emotive and helping others alot worse of (sod the doledossers)

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

So do you know what the money will be spent on?

RANJ

any sort of help is going to cost

MikeR

I would imagine alot will be skimmed of the top by a corrupt goverment and bribes given to people etc, that is the unfortunate reality of dealing in societies like this, cynical maybe realistic defiantely

Mike

MikeR

All charity is emotive my point being the stimulous for you to give to those particular charitys was personal experience and exposure

Mike

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

The thread, and my replies referred to the grumbling about giving Haiti 50 mill in aid. I didn't get into a debate about what's the best way to spend that money. And if I did I would be of the opinion that we need to help them to be able to help themselves. My daugher's school got involved with a 'Give a Goat' scheme in Ghana, and we donated for that, as that's the kind of charitable giving that promotes them 'helping themselves'. But in the short term money is needed in Haiti to help the crisis from getting even worse. Once people are sheltered and watered, then any cash left over should be all about sustainability/education/self help etc. There's nothing short sighted about my view, I just didn't get into that discussion.

MikeR

Maybe they are 2 seperate issues but fundamentally they are tied, we are talking about helping a country get back on its feet here,

Mike

Smiggy

I have absolutely no probelms with the UK giving aid. Yes we have problems but they are long term. Haiti's problems are immediate and require action now.

The UK like many countries will have an aid budget, this £50M will have come from that. It's not like they've took the money off of hospitals or the forces etc, although that point could be argued I suppose, but that money has been set aside for scenario's like this. It won't have any effect on anything else.

I'd hate to think we've become a country that cares little for other people.