paul johnstons mental zetec turbo (graph and pics)
14-01-2010 | 06:58 PM
#121
i have to say i would be worried about below 3 bar oil pressure at 7500 rpm.
not a dig in the slightest thats insane power for a zetec its certainly gonna make alot of yb powered cars look silly
why does the oil pressure drop off like that ?
is it a zetec trait ?
not a dig in the slightest thats insane power for a zetec its certainly gonna make alot of yb powered cars look silly
why does the oil pressure drop off like that ?
is it a zetec trait ?
14-01-2010 | 07:02 PM
#122
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 907
Likes: 1
From: London
I KNOW its alot more expensive and not as much fun etc etc etc.... and its not the point.
but check this out.... IN THE WET!!!!
boggo standard 911. frightening level of performance available to even no talent joe public now!
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...911_turbo.html
but check this out.... IN THE WET!!!!
boggo standard 911. frightening level of performance available to even no talent joe public now!http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...911_turbo.html
14-01-2010 | 07:53 PM
#123
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,995
Likes: 14
From: merseyside
in reply to your question , no i aint changed my mind as i wouldnt want the risk , even if very slight risk be it for the sake of Ł200.
and soz mate but i certainly dont have any prob with what you have done or achieved with your car. infact i wish you all the best . you have your opinions and i have mine , lets leave it there!!!!
cheers paul
and soz mate but i certainly dont have any prob with what you have done or achieved with your car. infact i wish you all the best . you have your opinions and i have mine , lets leave it there!!!!
cheers paul
14-01-2010 | 10:01 PM
#124
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,158
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From: in reality!!!!!!!!!!!
thats fair enough mate it was a genuine question that i only really asked as ian's your tunner too and he spec'd and built it with the standard mains and to tbh if it was my engine at that power i to would buy them and a dry sump just to be on the safe side, but i dont think i would upto 500hp but ive said that from the start ,but the oil pumps well we all know they can be killers at high revs .
cheers paul
14-01-2010 | 10:38 PM
#127
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,538
Likes: 0
From: .
I KNOW its alot more expensive and not as much fun etc etc etc.... and its not the point.
but check this out.... IN THE WET!!!! boggo standard 911. frightening level of performance available to even no talent joe public now!
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...911_turbo.html
but check this out.... IN THE WET!!!!
boggo standard 911. frightening level of performance available to even no talent joe public now!http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...911_turbo.html
14-01-2010 | 10:45 PM
#128
do you really think we would send out a engine with poor oil pressure
on the engine dyno sheet, the oil pressure gauge takes a long time to rise and settle,
when on the dyno, pull, correct fuelling, lift,
pull, pause, record data, lift
in that short time the computer dosnt recognise the oil pressure rise
HENCE having a 10inch manual gauge taking pressure straight off a oil pressure take off from the block
dont try to teach your grandma to suck eggs
Last edited by J1mbo; 14-01-2010 at 10:47 PM.
15-01-2010 | 07:47 AM
#134
do you really think we would send out a engine with poor oil pressure
on the engine dyno sheet, the oil pressure gauge takes a long time to rise and settle,
when on the dyno, pull, correct fuelling, lift,
pull, pause, record data, lift
in that short time the computer dosnt recognise the oil pressure rise
HENCE having a 10inch manual gauge taking pressure straight off a oil pressure take off from the block
dont try to teach your grandma to suck eggs
on the engine dyno sheet, the oil pressure gauge takes a long time to rise and settle,
when on the dyno, pull, correct fuelling, lift,
pull, pause, record data, lift
in that short time the computer dosnt recognise the oil pressure rise
HENCE having a 10inch manual gauge taking pressure straight off a oil pressure take off from the block
dont try to teach your grandma to suck eggs
why does it recognise it in lower revs then ? you can be as sarky as you want mate but it sounds abit fairy tale tbh ? looks like the pump cant keep up with the demand for oil.
what did the manual gauge indicate at 7500 rpm then ?
im in no way questioning your dad and his company, russell saywell is a good friend of my family and he used your dad for his cossies and has always spoke very highly of him.
i just cant get my head around the pressure drop off ? it would worry me.
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 15-01-2010 at 08:06 AM.
15-01-2010 | 09:27 AM
#135
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: birkenhead
tbh after speaking to harvey,i`m in no way bothered about that.after all it would`nt look good on scs,to send it out with low oil pressure
would it,
cheers paul
Last edited by paulj; 15-01-2010 at 09:29 AM.
15-01-2010 | 09:45 AM
#136
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 4
From: Nth Lincolnshire
Paul J
Did they do a power run after mapping? Is there a plot?
I'd be interested to see how the turbo spooled up on your engine
I take it your running a GT35 with .8 ex housing?
Cheers
Austen
Did they do a power run after mapping? Is there a plot?
I'd be interested to see how the turbo spooled up on your engine
I take it your running a GT35 with .8 ex housing?
Cheers
Austen
15-01-2010 | 11:08 AM
#138
Happily retired
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,707
Likes: 237
From: Hampshire
Congrats Paul good to see ya back, should raise the bar by the looks of it. Dont worry about the comments, every Tom, Dick & Harry will have built an engine more Powerfull & better built its par for the experts that abound on here, hit them where it hurts in the record book
.
15-01-2010 | 11:42 AM
#139
What you failed to realise is that the titan system was developed for "formula ford"
Formula Ford are single seaters that run a Zetec 1800cc nasp motor with about 150bhp
This is a completely different application
The pump is the heart of a dry sump system
You have to consider the fact that the 2.0 block has oil squirters and an oil take off for the turbo on the preasure side. Also need to consider bearing clearances for oil preasure drop too.
Then you also need to consider the scavenge effecct of the pump as the oil requirements and blow by past the rings is completely different in Pauls 570bhp motor to a virtually standard 1800cc formula ford engine running 150bhp
Go with Pace all day long even though they are a bit slow
The design spec sheet they will send you for the pump is very important to get right
The recent article in racecar engineering highlighted the issues with getting it right first time.
Just my 2 pence worth
Formula Ford are single seaters that run a Zetec 1800cc nasp motor with about 150bhp
This is a completely different application
The pump is the heart of a dry sump system
You have to consider the fact that the 2.0 block has oil squirters and an oil take off for the turbo on the preasure side. Also need to consider bearing clearances for oil preasure drop too.
Then you also need to consider the scavenge effecct of the pump as the oil requirements and blow by past the rings is completely different in Pauls 570bhp motor to a virtually standard 1800cc formula ford engine running 150bhp
Go with Pace all day long even though they are a bit slow
The design spec sheet they will send you for the pump is very important to get right
The recent article in racecar engineering highlighted the issues with getting it right first time.
Just my 2 pence worth
However having personally seen the quality of both Pace and Titan dry sump sumps the Titan wins hands down with the Pace one looking like it was cast from old coke cans by comparison.
However on the pump side, I was a little taken back that the Titan guy suggested feeding the turbo oil from the scavenge pumps!
The same Racecar Engineering article highlighted that the Yanks are most obsessive about crankcase vacuum - so why not a yank pump? Given that most Yank pumps will flow double (at 57% crank) what a Yb needs (3gpm) you could easily underdrive such a pump! Make sure though that you get either a external pressure bypass or a pump that bypasses into the scavenge side so not to heat the oil.
15-01-2010 | 11:53 AM
#141
You do need an oil air seperator on top of your dry sump tank. You also mostly seal your engine but must have flow from the the top of your motor to allow the flow of oil/air to your sump/dry sump pump. Ever tried to suck on a milk carton? No flow huh! Some people suggest a open line from your head to the tank but I think better a vag reg in your rocker cover to allow flow of oil from head to pump and a flapper valve from PCV area so you do not blow seals out when lifting off throttle/positive pressure in crankcase.
15-01-2010 | 11:55 AM
#142
Some good points.
However having personally seen the quality of both Pace and Titan dry sump sumps the Titan wins hands down with the Pace one looking like it was cast from old coke cans by comparison.
However on the pump side, I was a little taken back that the Titan guy suggested feeding the turbo oil from the scavenge pumps!
The same Racecar Engineering article highlighted that the Yanks are most obsessive about crankcase vacuum - so why not a yank pump? Given that most Yank pumps will flow double (at 57% crank) what a Yb needs (3gpm) you could easily underdrive such a pump! Make sure though that you get either a external pressure bypass or a pump that bypasses into the scavenge side so not to heat the oil.
However having personally seen the quality of both Pace and Titan dry sump sumps the Titan wins hands down with the Pace one looking like it was cast from old coke cans by comparison.
However on the pump side, I was a little taken back that the Titan guy suggested feeding the turbo oil from the scavenge pumps!
The same Racecar Engineering article highlighted that the Yanks are most obsessive about crankcase vacuum - so why not a yank pump? Given that most Yank pumps will flow double (at 57% crank) what a Yb needs (3gpm) you could easily underdrive such a pump! Make sure though that you get either a external pressure bypass or a pump that bypasses into the scavenge side so not to heat the oil.
Lincoln Im guessing you got yours through Rainbird as he was enquiring around the same time as me. Is yours all running now?
15-01-2010 | 12:03 PM
#143
Yes through Rainbird - engine is together now but not started. Good mate has same setup (titan sump/peterson pump) running in car - very good vacuum through rev range. I have got sump vac sensor so will log when I run.
15-01-2010 | 01:09 PM
#145
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: birkenhead
Congrats Paul good to see ya back, should raise the bar by the looks of it. Dont worry about the comments, every Tom, Dick & Harry will have built an engine more Powerfull & better built its par for the experts that abound on here, hit them where it hurts in the record book .
.
thats what i intend to try and do rodcheers paul
15-01-2010 | 06:18 PM
#146
http://www.fiestaturbo.com/forums/57...orth-vt133978/
ive found this very similar bhp engine but yb, little way down print out of on your dads dyno with steady oil pressure ?
i got the printout separate now yb here steady oil pressure :
the thread engine dyno prointout here :
if its the dyno cant see the pressure quick enough why could it on the yb ?
im a mechanic myself on caterpillar engines and i cant understand why it would do it ?
ive found this very similar bhp engine but yb, little way down print out of on your dads dyno with steady oil pressure ?
i got the printout separate now yb here steady oil pressure :
the thread engine dyno prointout here :
if its the dyno cant see the pressure quick enough why could it on the yb ?
im a mechanic myself on caterpillar engines and i cant understand why it would do it ?
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 15-01-2010 at 06:26 PM.
15-01-2010 | 07:43 PM
#147
right, your welcome to come down tomorrow and see for yourself how the dyno reacts, if you decline i will take pictures .5 of a second apart of the manual gauge reading full pressure and the dyno one rising, would that be good enough for you ?
also, dave jackson jacko996 will be here watching his engine im sure if he sees this thread he will comment
jim
also, dave jackson jacko996 will be here watching his engine im sure if he sees this thread he will comment
jim
15-01-2010 | 07:52 PM
#148
right, your welcome to come down tomorrow and see for yourself how the dyno reacts, if you decline i will take pictures .5 of a second apart of the manual gauge reading full pressure and the dyno one rising, would that be good enough for you ?
also, dave jackson jacko996 will be here watching his engine im sure if he sees this thread he will comment
jim
also, dave jackson jacko996 will be here watching his engine im sure if he sees this thread he will comment
jim
right, dont get your knickers in a twist mate, so its just the yb made oil pressure quicker then on your dyno compared to the zetec ?
dont take my questions as dissing your dad mate ive already said i think its awesome and know someone who highly recommends him im just curious tis all
if i wasnt babysitting my daughter tommorrow id love to come down ive never seen an engine on a engine dyno in the flesh so to speak.
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 15-01-2010 at 07:57 PM.
15-01-2010 | 08:53 PM
#151
right, dont get your knickers in a twist mate, so its just the yb made oil pressure quicker then on your dyno compared to the zetec ?
dont take my questions as dissing your dad mate ive already said i think its awesome and know someone who highly recommends him im just curious tis all
if i wasnt babysitting my daughter tommorrow id love to come down ive never seen an engine on a engine dyno in the flesh so to speak.
dont take my questions as dissing your dad mate ive already said i think its awesome and know someone who highly recommends him im just curious tis all
if i wasnt babysitting my daughter tommorrow id love to come down ive never seen an engine on a engine dyno in the flesh so to speak.
like i say, ill take pics tomoz anyway and show you and everyone else
pic of graph coming up in a second for those interested
15-01-2010 | 09:11 PM
#153
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: birkenhead
15-01-2010 | 10:14 PM
#155
ok, it was that graph of the yb that made me think why would one engine do it and not another. it must be that the yb could make the pressure quicker for the dyno to see it quick enough musnt it ?
15-01-2010 | 10:16 PM
#156
the cossie would have been help in for longer, the focus engine was not held for long periods of time !
jim
15-01-2010 | 10:41 PM
#159
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: birkenhead
15-01-2010 | 10:53 PM
#160