danneth

i know that i was just making a point that if its bhp per litre people are looking at then the rx8 wins, as its still officially 190bhp per litre

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

it will have less grunt as its 400cc smaller. fair comparison would be a rips rb30. paper figures lol
you dont do 9 sec 1/4s in a road car with paper figures. im refering to tweenies car btw just as an example.

an rb30 would be fairly evenly matched to a 2jz imo.

a big power 2jz supra will be my next car ive already decided that

danneth

doesn't rule any of them out, i just look at the overall picture for my opinion so when i look at the cost and the mpg of them sort of engines i dont believe them to be the best IMO

It's Czech Mate

no it isnt, the wankel shifts 2.6 litres of air on a full cycle compared to a 1.3 4 cylinder reciprocating engine which shifts 1.3 litres a cycle

so if your comparing bhp per litre the wankel is actually mediocre at best

It's Czech Mate

Your now making it up as you go along, you binned the suzuki for not being mass produced or current yet the others arent dismissed on the same grounds

Must protect beloved vtec at all costs!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Incorrect, you are assuming a VE of exactly 100% for each engine, which isnt the case.

Which is why displacement is measured as a static value and NOT based on how much air an engine will shift.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Was a turbo RB30 petrol engine a production car engine then?

What car did they come in as ive not seen one as standard, ive only seen home made ones?

danneth

its still officially classed as a 1.3 end of

joffy

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Mondeo Man;4630479]Guess that rules out all the the merc engine in the Zonda and Macca F1, the Ferarri engines and the Lambo v12 etc then?


dont wanna be picky but aint it a BMW engine in the F1 not a Merc??

It's Czech Mate

Agreed, I explined incorrectly, although my point is right despite the incorrect explanation

danneth

i dont need to protect it, its track record does the talking for this engine, like i said all IMO you dont have to get so stressed

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but its shit compaired to the 2JZ in standard form:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_RB_engine#RB30

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the holden commodore!

Wank engine in standard form, that scooby slayer fella saying they are awesome clearly has never encountered one or he would have forgotten all about it as quickly as I did

Dave_YD

I like the Honda K20,

Ive got one fitted in a dc2 and excellent combination(in my sig) -

turbotoaster

no its not.

People really have trouble understanding what a rotary actually is.

99% of engines you see in day to day life are either 2 stroke or 4 stroke

what a rotary is, is a 6 stroke, ever wonder how a 1.3litre can spin up a 1000bhp turbo?

A 4 stroke car engine does 2 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders

A rotary does 3 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders.

since each cylinder is 654cc, thats 3 x 654cc = 1962cc

1962cc x 2 rotors = 3924cc

So a rotary 13b engine is a 3924cc 6 stroke engine.

its just there are no other 6 strokes to compare it to, if your only using 4 of its strokes to compare to a piston cart engine then fine, but then i may aswell say to compare a car engine to a 2 stroke engine should never be done neither

It's Czech Mate

Thanks for that, but again, I've already said i was wrong as it seems are you ( see Chips reply below ), however it further iterates my point about bhp per litre which was what I was inexpertly trying to say so thank you very much for attempting to prove it further.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It doesnt have strokes, it roates, hence it is called a ROTARY engine
Stroke = going up, then coming down again

If by stroke, you mean phase of engine transition, then it has 4 (intake, compression, power, exhaust), as it is bascially a repackaged 4 cylinder engine in the first place, thats the whole idea of them!

And it all happens during 1 revolution as far as im aware, not during 3 as you are saying, my understanding of how it happens is like in these images:

INTAKE


COMPRESSION


POWER


EXHAUST




The eccentric output shaft turns 3 times for each rotation of the actual rotor itself, so maybe that is what is confusing you?

ie like so:

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

Completely agree with the engine bit, disagree with rest of car being crap though lol..

GARETH T

rotory engines are wank
rover v8 are wank
rb26 wank

v10 bmw

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

yeah in standard form but they dont take much and dont cost much either.


http://www.ripsracing.com/products.html

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They dont take much to modify?
You have to change the entire head casting
swap to the multivalve setup with another 12 valves
add an extra cam
change both the manifolds
change the management

There is hardly anything of the actual rb30 left by the time you have finished, just the bottom end basically!


what you are saying is like saying a transit pinto is a good engine cause you can get 500bhp out of a YB

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

no one has disputed that mate. i was just making a point to reply to a remark that rb26 engines are wank, if somebody thinks that then they havnt experienced a good one. ive been in a 2 r33s and they didnt impress me at all, but a proper built / specced rb will impress.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

sometimes chip you can be hard work lol
you just put the rips rb30 bottom end direct replacement for an rb26.
as an example i could do it on mine. just sell my bottom end and use the rb30. dont compare the transit that stupid.
its just getting the capacity up in line with a 2jz.

think of it more as just an rb26 bored out to 3000 cc.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

to be honest scooby slayer a lot of the skyline haters on here are hard work.

There is no way the rb26 isnt a fantastic engine.

Was it not what finished the RS500 as a touring car?

turbotoaster

thanks chip, it was something i read a while ago but wasnt sure where it was to copy and paste it so just wrote it off the cuff.

on that moving diagram there is 1 spark per rotation, would you class that like a 2 stroke then per rotor housing, or because theres 2 housings that run on an eccentric shaft you would class it as 4 stroke....i use the term stroke loosely but i can use rotation is you like

if you bolt two 2 stroke engines together firing them oppositly, thats classes as a 4 stroke i assume

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

The Cummins they throw in the New Dodge 3500's ... (Not a CAR but on the road)

If the scope was further A field then non of the answers above.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

yes mate the r32 gtr was specifically designed to go and beat the rs500s in touring cars and it duely did just that in japan / australia.
didnt race here as the turbos were already banned.

2jz gte rb26dett cosworth yb are all up there in my book, affordable highly tunable engines that the avarage man can comfortably afford to own and play with supercars in.

my eyes were truly opened when i drove a properly specced rb26dett.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

just count by the firing times is fair imo. no valves so compare to 2 stroke but would be 3 stroke.

class the one revolution of the rotor to one revolution of the crank in a 2 stroke.

or not i really dont know tbh !

its been said to me several times though that that a 1.3 rotary is basically a 2.6.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Swapping a complete bottom end out, is hardly a trivial task though.

To get 600bhp out of the supra, you dont even need to take the engine out of the car!

saph_Al

iTrader: (2)

Quite taken with the rotory wankler engine, Deffo witch craft goin on inside them there metal boxes

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its a shame emissions are making it harder to develop.

The 4 stroke has had 100+ years from every imaginable car and bike and engine company to get to where it is, and the rotary makes more power for the same amount of space/weight taken up, and after only a few decades from just a few companies.

IF rotaries had been thought of first, 1000bhp would seem tame by now!

G60rallye

I would think that the Audi 5 cylinder engine must feature quite well up the list. 30 years since it was first used. Since then there has never been a top level rally championship won without turbo power. In 1984 they were producing over 300bhp in standard road car trim. The engine won group B multiple times, same with pikes peak, and then dominated the imsa race series in America. Can be tuned to well over 1000bhp without the need for liners or anything like that. Lastly and most importantly they make an awesome sound! The engine design then taken on by Volvo and Ford.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, Audi 5 cylinder lump is a good call

tjRS500

millington diamond what an engine! but at around something like Ł25000 its not really a bargain but god does it sound good!!!:O

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

oh yeah its a task but the point made by user mike was lack of torque, rb30 would make a fair comparison.

its no different to me comparing my engine to any of the ybs ive had, the rb its miles better but id be shot down in flames if i said that on here because its not a fair comparison, which is my point. you cant compare a yb to an rb26dett because theres no way to convert the yb to make it comparable.
but to compare a rb26dett to a 2jz gte just use rb30 bottom end and you have a fair comparisson imo.

now surely chip you can now see my point ? lol

GARETH T

thinking about it, the best road car eninge ive drove is the 3l twin turbo bmw engine

mozzy

well what is it then Dan, it moved ford on from the old cvh, imagine a focus running a cvh, pretty shite i think. the zetec was and is a ultra reliabke smooth revvy excellent engine and as said already at the time not many other manafacturers were using engines that were so cheap to buy and could do as many miles and have the tuning potential as the zetec the vauxhall xe was good but not as reliable when mileage is high, i have seen a friends 2.0 si 1994 mondeo do 421k on the ogriginal engine yes and that was because of oil change every 6k and good quality parts used when sevicing and repairing etc, i cant think of any other manafactuer who built such a reliable engine in 1993, even bmw 6 pots would struggle above 250k. yes vtecs etc are better but they have never been as cheap to buy as a zetec, and for imo the older zetecs are in there prime right now because they can be picked up for pennies and can be modified to super car slayers relativly cheaply using parts from other models (ie focus rs manifold and juicy turbo's etc). not saying its the best but if it was not for the zetec the focus would have never been such a huge success but being the editor of a ford magazine you should know all this already

Barry_GTi

Can only really go off things I have driven personally:

Audi 5 Cyl 20v RS2 engine
Audi RS4 V8 is a peach
Audi RS6 V10 TT
Audi V12 TDi is amazing but not "fun"
Porsche 997 GT3RS Flat 6 is just WOW

Some of my favourites, could go on forever though!

mozzy

the st170 engine is a glorified zetec, I hadf a play with a1998 civic type r the 187 bhp model, on intial pull off he edged away i then caught up at about 40 and pulled past him then in a flash he was gone into the distance ahead of me, those old jdm type r's are awesome little cars and obviously dont match the torque of 170 bhp 2.0 engine but definatly a screaming engine and i would prefer one of those over the newer civic type, a pretty wicked car over all. I was at a mates garage when a chav came in in a matt black old f reg civic 1.4 auto lowered to the ground almost, it was not a vtec but had 2 carbs and i was absolutly shocked when he left and floored it, i was not expecting it to go half as well as it did.

still i think the zetec set a benchmark for all manafactuerers

SiZT

imo the rotary engine is more of a 1 stroke engine. Awesome idea in theory, just not in practice. Great engines for me are:

BL/BMC A-Series - Such a clever design, probably the first production pushrod engine that made 100bhp/litre achievable.

Chevy Small Block V8 - Legend in it's own right.

BMW 2002 turbo engine - Purely for the fact it was the first production turbocharged engine (was it also the same block used in the old BMW F1 engines?)

BMW E46 3.2 - Usable, production 100bhp/litre engine

as well as the CVH, YB, R5GTT engine, Fiat 1.3 turbo i.e engine etc... for proving that turbocharged engines could be (kind of) reliable in daily drivers