Si B

iTrader: (59)

New graph added on page 2, showing torque curves as well!






Right, potential for a major shit storm of a post if the morons on here read any further. If you have nothing constructive / postive to add, kindly Foxtrot Oscar to another thread

Having read Dave's post about running his car up on the rollers today I thought it would make an interesting (well for me anyway ) comparison to see how my car stacks up against Dave's frankly awesome Escort.

So, using the two following Dyno Dynamics graphs showing our BHP at the flywheel, I've knocked up a comparison chart, to see how and where our two cars make their power.

2 very different cars, engines, tuners and end goals, but very similar peak power - the graphs used:





The comparison graph for BHP @ flywheel:



I'm not sure of Dave's engine capacity, but mine is a 2.3 litre "Stroker" engine, up from the normal 2 litre. I run a GT35 .63 at 2.1 bar, Dave was using a GT40 at 1.9 bar.

My cas has been mapped as far as I can probably safely go for sustained track use. Dave's road mapping was not finished, and the car was not running full boost. The comparison is not at all scientific, with his car finished his numbers would no doubt trounce mine.

Here's the data set I used, some numbers are rough / rounded:

RPM Si B Evo BHP YUM Escort BHP

3000 90
3200
3400 126
3600
3800
4000 270 176
4200 306 200
4400 351 224
4600 423 288
4800 450 352
5000 495 432
5200 522 464
5400 540 496
5600 549 520
5800 560 552
6000 572 560
6200 576 576
6400 585 592
6600 590 608
6800 585 616
7000 580 616
7200 576 616
7400 576 608

Looking at that comparison graph, I don't reckon there would have been too much between Dave and I on the track. My car pulls sooner and harder from low down the rev range, his makes better peak power and sustains it - good top end power helps on track, but drive out of slower corners is pretty handy too.

I'm now even more gutted I never got to see it used in proper anger, as I think a few very epic races may have been on the cards

I'll add the torque graphs tomorrow when I have another spare half hour to fiddle about.

Sorry if I bored you, I know some people may have found it interesting to compare the two, and I'm sure a real life on the track comparison would have been even better still

Si

stuboy

both read outs look awesome to me..

JonnyBravo

Would be very interesting Si.

I think Daves is under a 2.2 as I remember reading on Rods spec which if I'm right is a very similar specced engine.

Mad mile it is !

JonnyBravo

Any idea what the weights are of either car ?

TimC

iTrader: (1)

Awesome little bit of work there Si. Would of been a good little duel had the 2 of you got together on a track somewhere

Its Dave

iTrader: (4)

Very nice work Si its a 2.15cc

if you need any data just let me know

Here is YUM on rollers yesterday

Cheers

Also charts for @ the wheels












Videos from the day

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Im sure the Evo woud be a better every day car to drive

Steve

foreigneRS

don't forget that the gearbox may be a reason for shaping the power curve like it is

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

that would be an epic battle to watch on track

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Nice work Si. For those that didnt go out in the Escort. You missed a treat

Its Dave

iTrader: (4)

Si

Here is the numbers and graph it made on engine dyno


Cheers

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

top info there mate. I think this post will turn to shit.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

It wont turn to shit. Just ask Pete Rs Specialist to clean it up. He does a good job of it and we can have an interesting thread

TimC

iTrader: (1)

Also what I was thinking, YUM is geared much longer then the Evo

ZeTeC101

Always liked the evo but amazing how a cossie always comes on top

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Si,
Did you get your at wheels figure - I would be interested in seeing that posted in the same way?

alan12112

+1 on that one for me folks whats the point in flywheel figures for a genuine comparison like this? At the wheels is where it's at

I'm quite intersted to see what kind of transmission loss both tuners have used for the two different 4wd systems!

charlie luciano

iTrader: (3)

Awsome cars, I'd have either one of them


Luciano

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

bit bored to I have ut the figures into a graph

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Just proves the old Yank adage of "there is no replacement for displacement" .

dojj

iTrader: (3)

it would all be down to the gearbox ratio's really to be able to work the best around a track
with more power dave would obviously have been faster at the top end with 100 or so more brake but it would have been close around a track, especially the twisty bits to see which car was able to put down the power better

It's Czech Mate

Would be cool to see the torque curves overlaid onto that graph too

Chip

iTrader: (3)

That graph is exactly what they feel like too IMHO, having been in both lots of times, I would defiantely say that even on low boost (which is what you are comparing obviously) YUM feels stronger at the top, but the evo definately pulls from lower down, due largely to the extra stroke obviously!

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

That just confirms what i said about the Evo being a better everyday car

Steve

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I wouldnt go that far just based on those curves TBH, although Si B's has a little more midrange torque than Dave's on low boost, YUM is hardly shy, and still WAY more than I would ever want out of an everyday car anyway TBH

Better everyday car would be Helen's Saph or Si B's 320bhp Evo

Cossie Helen

iTrader: (1)

My Saph to cool for everyday, just can never be arsed to move everything round on a morning to get it out the garage


To compare the 2 cars I really would have to drive the Evo, wonder if Si would let me have the keys ?

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

I know what you mean.

But out of the 2 cars im sure the Evo woud be the easiest to drive everyday

Steve

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Without a doubt, but for entirely different reasons, like its got a full interior with sound deadening etc, engine wise both would be fine as an everyday car, YUM drives like a shopping car when you are just pottering about, I drove it 3 hours in slow moving traffic and the only thing that wasnt pleasant about the experience was the noise (mainly from the gearbox) the engine just picks up and goes at any rpm you put your foot down, the stroker kit totally transforms a YB.

AlexF

Does Si's have a full interior?

I'd be very intrested in the weights of the 2 cars

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes Si's is still full interior, the only thing that has been compromised is the aircon has been removed.

AlexF

and the steel roof isnt it?

wozzy

even if both cars had identical power and torque graphs, the evo delivers the power in a different way due to shorter gearing. The suspension design is also superior to the old coz. As much as i love daves, ( and any escoz ) an evo with a similar spec engine would eat the coz for breakfast a to b unless you'd REALLY gone to town on the handling of the escoz. ( mike rainbirds or hadlands for example ). Mr Shead is probably a good person to contribute on this thread as he drives them both in all different states of tune every day!! ( and yes i'm an evo owner ). I'll get my coat and f@ck off back to the MLR!!! lol

sbd16v

si do you have any in gear times ??

Its Dave

iTrader: (4)

My did have beam, 3 way coil overs Adj tca ect ect, just ask chip he went out in it at Donnington


Cheers

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Si, so it that pretty much a GT35,s full power on pump fuel then?? or could it make much more??

Great thread by the way....KEEP IT CLEAN folks.....................

cossieDavedree

would eat the coz for breakfast

lol

I hate that phrase it makes me cringe.
Anyway Is yum still gonna be put to sleep ???

wozzy

i know dave i've been out in your car!! i'm not talking about your car specifically just in general. ( now your breaking YUM let me know when you want the rest of your windows done!!! )

ps, dependent on what suspension set up si has in his evo i still think it would have YUM through the twisties. pmsl!!!

warren

Si B

iTrader: (59)

I'll be home shortly and post replies to everyone that asked questions - on work phone at the mo so hard to view post properly.

TOMMY_RS

fuck me, that lead looks extremly close to that front wheel

vroooom ptssssh

Super unleaded, was it BP, Tesco or Shell? just curious thats all, must of been very quick!