Shoddy workmanship
............. 
23-10-2009, 08:55 PM
#83
Another question...baring in mind its a Rover.
If the work is that shoddy, and having to fix a lot of cock ups then map it, all of which can be very time consuming. Surely the repair costs will exceed the value of the car ? lol
And fuck knows whats inside that engine....could be risky mapping it !
If the work is that shoddy, and having to fix a lot of cock ups then map it, all of which can be very time consuming. Surely the repair costs will exceed the value of the car ? lol
And fuck knows whats inside that engine....could be risky mapping it !
24-10-2009, 12:51 PM
#88
Although I'm not trying to defend whoever mapped that car, I have to say that seeing lines of similar numbers isn't entirely unusual.
Obviously there are parts of the map, particularly in the top left hand corner that the car won't ever hit, no matter how hard you try, so what I normally do there is take the first value on the line that the car does actually hit, then copy that back to the start of that line just to tidy things up. Either that or I place a proportionally lower value at the start of the line then (in the case of Omex), use the 'calculate row' function, which will smooth that part of the line out. It's academic really, because it won't ever see it.
Additionally, regardless of numbers in the map, if the AFR is correct, sometimes you have to disregard what you think the theoretical numbers should be.
Bottom line is that this is a lazy map, but maybe the customer was given it back with a basic map on it, in order to go away and make further changes?
There is no excusing that crank trigger though.
Obviously there are parts of the map, particularly in the top left hand corner that the car won't ever hit, no matter how hard you try, so what I normally do there is take the first value on the line that the car does actually hit, then copy that back to the start of that line just to tidy things up. Either that or I place a proportionally lower value at the start of the line then (in the case of Omex), use the 'calculate row' function, which will smooth that part of the line out. It's academic really, because it won't ever see it.
Additionally, regardless of numbers in the map, if the AFR is correct, sometimes you have to disregard what you think the theoretical numbers should be.
Bottom line is that this is a lazy map, but maybe the customer was given it back with a basic map on it, in order to go away and make further changes?
There is no excusing that crank trigger though.
24-10-2009, 01:25 PM
#91
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On OMEX it's injector duty cycle in milliseconds 
Christian, i do know what you mean about realistically hitting the top left corner of the map (Full load, very low engine speed), but as you say, it takes a couple of minutes to tidy that area up!
Christian, i do know what you mean about realistically hitting the top left corner of the map (Full load, very low engine speed), but as you say, it takes a couple of minutes to tidy that area up!
24-10-2009, 03:56 PM
#93
PassionFord Post Whore!!
They are not in the West Midlands and l very strongly doubt and would be massively surprised if Mark would have done that, so l am unsure what you are trying to achive by your cryptic response other then to start an argument or piss him of,
Maybe l have missinterprated your reply if so sorry but l think it reads the way l have intepreated it...
Mike
Maybe l have missinterprated your reply if so sorry but l think it reads the way l have intepreated it...
Mike
Mike
24-10-2009, 04:15 PM
#94
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24-10-2009, 06:01 PM
#95
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What Christian & or Beccy said.
I feel this is another one of those posts to put another company down to aid their own company. Pathetic really when it could be a base map.
Can't these posts be deleted when we know that the other party are not on this board to defend themselves?
I feel this is another one of those posts to put another company down to aid their own company. Pathetic really when it could be a base map.
Can't these posts be deleted when we know that the other party are not on this board to defend themselves?
24-10-2009, 06:27 PM
#99
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It may have worked in the workshop, but it may have been a different case when driving down a bumpy road?
Either way, its not 'best practice' to mount it to a flexible surface surely?
Either way, its not 'best practice' to mount it to a flexible surface surely?
24-10-2009, 07:15 PM
#101
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I think this is a good thread and thanks to Will ive a much better understanding about basic mapping principles and i knew nothing at all (Didn't even know what the number meant!)
Martin's been in the game long enough to know when somethings been thrown together and he hasn't named the company either I have no problem with the company being outed as it may save someone a load of cash for shonky work!
Martin's been in the game long enough to know when somethings been thrown together and he hasn't named the company either I have no problem with the company being outed as it may save someone a load of cash for shonky work!
24-10-2009, 08:46 PM
#107
what level of competence "should" a decent mapper have before they are let loose on a laptop, just in case someone is looking to do their own mapping?
and if we were doing our own mapping, would it be resonable to get a decent off teh hself map installed before fiddlign with it?
or is there a "mapping for dummies" type book that anyone would recommend?
24-10-2009, 08:53 PM
#108
just perform regulation reyland witchcraft using electricery and a keyboard and then tell us, on a scale of 1-10, how many elephants worth of poo the original map was
what level of competence "should" a decent mapper have before they are let loose on a laptop, just in case someone is looking to do their own mapping?
and if we were doing our own mapping, would it be resonable to get a decent off teh hself map installed before fiddlign with it?
or is there a "mapping for dummies" type book that anyone would recommend?
what level of competence "should" a decent mapper have before they are let loose on a laptop, just in case someone is looking to do their own mapping?
and if we were doing our own mapping, would it be resonable to get a decent off teh hself map installed before fiddlign with it?
or is there a "mapping for dummies" type book that anyone would recommend?
24-10-2009, 09:03 PM
#109
i'll happily admit to knowing jack about mapping, although i do realise that the more you put the foot down the more fuel you will use and that when the engine revs faster it consumes more fuel
but other than that, i haven't the foggiest as to why duty time and injector cycles mean or why blue injectors are better than green ones for different engines etc
but for the engine to run, how easy would it be, or, on the other side, difficult would it be, to get that map you've posted up to "work"?
and the other thing i've been struggling to work out, even with all the explanations, is if that engine is going to melt at the top end or not make any poer at the top end beacuse it's not going to rev that high
is it something to learn mathamatically or is it soemthing to learn with experience?
as in if i can't do maths that good would i still be able to map after a whlie or would maths be a huge benifit
but other than that, i haven't the foggiest as to why duty time and injector cycles mean or why blue injectors are better than green ones for different engines etc
but for the engine to run, how easy would it be, or, on the other side, difficult would it be, to get that map you've posted up to "work"?
and the other thing i've been struggling to work out, even with all the explanations, is if that engine is going to melt at the top end or not make any poer at the top end beacuse it's not going to rev that high
is it something to learn mathamatically or is it soemthing to learn with experience?
as in if i can't do maths that good would i still be able to map after a whlie or would maths be a huge benifit
24-10-2009, 09:04 PM
#110
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Imagine if i knew some bodges YOU did? I wouldnt post up on a busy forum, i would phone you. Maybe this is the "new world" !
24-10-2009, 09:12 PM
#111
Thing is the lad who owns the car has no idea whether a crank sensor fitted to a plastic cover is good or not or if his engine needs the same amount of fuel for the whole rev range at a specific load, he trusts the guy who he spends his money with. He didn't call the tuner because he wasn't aware of issues. Defend this poor workmanship all you like but I dont feel comfortable with it.
24-10-2009, 09:19 PM
#113
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Evidentally!!! I was actually asking why YOU didnt phone this dodgy tuner before posting on a forum of this magnitude? We are happy of your concern for the public but i feel a vested interest. Too many people get ruined by not knowing the full picture IMO, but you knock yourself out you seem popular on here.
Last edited by Turner RS; 24-10-2009 at 09:21 PM.
24-10-2009, 09:28 PM
#114
I think this is a good thread and thanks to Will ive a much better understanding about basic mapping principles and i knew nothing at all (Didn't even know what the number meant!)
Martin's been in the game long enough to know when somethings been thrown together and he hasn't named the company either I have no problem with the company being outed as it may save someone a load of cash for shonky work!
Martin's been in the game long enough to know when somethings been thrown together and he hasn't named the company either I have no problem with the company being outed as it may save someone a load of cash for shonky work!
what level of competence "should" a decent mapper have before they are let loose on a laptop, just in case someone is looking to do their own mapping?
and if we were doing our own mapping, would it be resonable to get a decent off teh hself map installed before fiddlign with it?
or is there a "mapping for dummies" type book that anyone would recommend?
and if we were doing our own mapping, would it be resonable to get a decent off teh hself map installed before fiddlign with it?
or is there a "mapping for dummies" type book that anyone would recommend?
Everything I learned before starting was from this forum and other internet resources and it currently looks like this......
Which IMO is 100X more polished than the map in this thread!
So someone with only a basic knowledge of mapping can still produce something that at least appears correct even if it is not perfect and a more experienced tuner could do much more with it.
Last edited by Karlos G; 24-10-2009 at 09:31 PM.
25-10-2009, 12:46 AM
#116
Amazing how I still seem to rattle some people cage everytime I come on here - about time you all got a life and moved on. I didn't ask for your uninformed input.
25-10-2009, 02:27 AM
#117
funny that - dont remember seeing anyone else there?.. shouldn't listen to dodgy tuner with sour grapes.....
Amazing how I still seem to rattle some people cage everytime I come on here - about time you all got a life and moved on. I didn't ask for your uninformed input.
Amazing how I still seem to rattle some people cage everytime I come on here - about time you all got a life and moved on. I didn't ask for your uninformed input.
Surely your just as sad coming on here to cause grief, You obviously said what you said to bait someone? Why dont you "get a life and move on".
25-10-2009, 08:19 AM
#119
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I don't bodge darling Thing is the lad who owns the car has no idea whether a crank sensor fitted to a plastic cover is good or not or if his engine needs the same amount of fuel for the whole rev range at a specific load, he trusts the guy who he spends his money with. He didn't call the tuner because he wasn't aware of issues. Defend this poor workmanship all you like but I dont feel comfortable with it.
Thing is the lad who owns the car has no idea whether a crank sensor fitted to a plastic cover is good or not or if his engine needs the same amount of fuel for the whole rev range at a specific load, he trusts the guy who he spends his money with. He didn't call the tuner because he wasn't aware of issues. Defend this poor workmanship all you like but I dont feel comfortable with it.lol, if everyone took pictures of bodges they found everyone would have a bad name !!!
Last edited by cossyking; 25-10-2009 at 08:31 AM.
25-10-2009, 08:42 AM
#120
both of you dont have a clue what went on - so why dont you butt out?.. The fact I dont spend every minute on here bitching about something which if you really did know what happened you could well see my point I think shows I have moved on...
Unlike all the maddettes stuck up marks ar%e, who have to jump on me everytime I dare appear on here - funny really as most of them were not even using MAD at the time!!
Martin - you are wasting your breath I fear... surely you must realise by now people love defending dodgy workmanship
Unlike all the maddettes stuck up marks ar%e, who have to jump on me everytime I dare appear on here - funny really as most of them were not even using MAD at the time!!
Martin - you are wasting your breath I fear... surely you must realise by now people love defending dodgy workmanship