Iain Mac

Both very fair points well made.
I used a Mk1 XR4i shell to reshell a Mk2 XR4x4, but interestingly, both bodystyles are covered by the same Type Approval number so DVLA did accept the shell as a direct replacement.

And I'm not an authorised repairer but I can't see anything on the website or in the package of paperwork I had to submit that says they would be exempted from the law that says a monocoque is regarded as a chassis (though I did have to declare that I was not a professional repairer for the purposes of the SVA test, because then I didn't need type approval or some such).

Let's leave it there and agree to disagree.

NC53 - As said, I used an XR4i three door shell for an XR4x4 5 door donor, and I did stamp the shell myself but had to get an MOT Station to stamp a form to confirm the car had been stamped. There was no stipulation on where to stamp it, though I did use the standard position, plus another secret place just in case the car is ever stolen and recovered.

Cozzfather - Having a Mark 1 XR4i on a J reg attracts too much attention to not have the car stamped!

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

But thats ringing if you ask some on here

I agree tho , thats all i would have done , DVLA have covered there arse if you ask me by asking him to have it inspected and giving it a new chassie number

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

well theres the answer Ian

you didnt use the same type of shell , it didnt even have the same number of doors so couldnt realy carry the same chassie number

Or does this mean i can build a rs500 5 door

ps , my point about authorised registered repair centers is simply that they dont have to have a reshell inspected when complete , anyone can reshell a car but DVLA usually want to inspect it afterwards

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

paul if you don't get some sleep you're going to be even more grumpy tomorrow than normal haha

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

If i got any more grumpy i would just spit my dummy out and not take it

Goodnight my fello PF"ers

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Ps, I expect another 5 pages of irelevant shite when i get hone tomorrow please

Kevin Sharp

iTrader: (3)

fookin hell... and PMSL@ some of the experts on here

FYI chaps i bought a good few RS Turdos back in the late 80,s early 90,s and yes guess what...under a year old and RESHELLED....by ford on instructions of the insurance company no Q plate, No change of VIN just a straight forward replacement service part!!!! and not on the hit list! one of my own was even taken to ford....a 1991 xr2i ...i reshelled it at 6 months old....ford came to the assumtion it "might" have had some NSF damage ddue to a brand new lower suspension arm....i was pleased with their findings..as i had reshelled the car and painted it myself ROFLOL

iain, you have made your xr4i reshell seroiusly hard work for yourself, as said above all that was required was an mot tax it then change engine no

but to the original post....ummmm lets have a 40 year old car with original patchwork shell or replacement? .......i,ll have the replacement please!!

PS reshell posts are funny! half the peeps slating them are prob in reshells!

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

yep and theres some on here wrong,as i said its basically wrong to reshell a car using a pre used with id shell imo.
i knew a cosworth specialist back in the middle 90's who did a nice sideline in reshelling sapphire cosworths into 3dr's yes 3dr's.

he was using up them 500 quidder ford shells and rebuilding smacked up 4dr cozzies and i found out how he did it,many of them e reg too .

basically he reshelled the car and put the sapphire cos id into the new 3dr shell and then when all built up filled the back of the log book in (please look and see !!!) and told the dvla the car was no longer a 4dr but a fookin 3dr,they used to just issue a v5 like that and there was your e reg 3dr cossie. infact there seems to be more e reg 3dr's about now than back then
i even saw him do a f reg 3dr,that looked well iffy though

Dannn

Care to explain to me why ?

Personally I think that anyone who tells me that a re-shelled RS500 is still the genuine thing has lost the plot...how can it be...?

If you Martin take a three door into your workshop and make it into an RS500 including fitting the T4 engine using the RS500 block etc etc exactly like Tickford did then why is that car not an RS500...?

Surely the inflated value of RS500's (apart for the extra/different parts) is its origins/providence and not soley based on the registration document ?

I think if someone paid £40K+ for an RS500 which appeared to genuine only to find out later it had been re-shelled (even with a new shell) would be pretty upset!

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

lets have quick recap for those lost in all these posts

a car can be reshelled with a new or nos shell (of the same type) and retain the original id...FACT

a car can be reshelled with another previously registered shell but to conform to dvla rules this reshelled car cannot retain it's original id

a heavily modified car should go through the dvla points system and attain 8 points to keeps it's original id (5 points for the shell, 2 for steering 1 for each end of the running gear and so on)

ok are we all back up to speed lol

steve

Kevin Sharp

iTrader: (3)

no sorry steve i dont understand cos this is a forum, can you recap but make it really easy to understand for the idiots

TIA

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

and you wonder why there is a wall between us!!!

he should have built it higher lol



jokes apart honestly no one can be confused with what I have wrote surely??


steve

Kevin Sharp

iTrader: (3)

AFPMSL

sorry you lost me ...please explain!

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

thats too easy to understand

but yeah


can you do the same sort of clarification for them dodgy fake plaques that some rs500's have between the electric window switches

and while your at it explain how and why one of the first 2500 big turbo homologation escort cosworth is the rarer better car compared to them small turbo thingys

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

fook it I'm beat last time I got involved in a late night convo with you a piccy of my bollocks was posted all over the net pmsl

but it was for a good cause lol

steve

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

yes thats easy to to recap lol

no rs500's ever left the tickford factory with a plaque between the window switches..FACT


hows that lol?

just to recap that one lol


the first 2500 escort cosworths had bags under the rear seats with 2 washer pumps this was to homologate the rally cars using water injection

da da!!!!

anyway the st escort is better than the bt because......I own one lol

steve

Kevin Sharp

iTrader: (3)

AFPMSL i missed that. any chance of a repost as i was sleeping by that time

post it in about 15 mins








as im off to bed shortly and you will have been castrated by webteam by that time

neilm

I would beg to differ there, under the kit car rules which are the same that is applied to 'radically altered vehicles' its done on a points scheme, and you only need 8 points the engine counts for very little so as long as other items are retained then it will not go on a Q plate.


Where this gets stupid, is that a standard 105e Anglia with drum brakes all round with a YB in it scores enough points to stay out of SVA territory and away from Q plates because it scores points for the orginal brakes as well as shell, tranmission etc.

The whole thing is mad.



Going back to the start of the post, I really hate people who see it as their duty to inform the police and DVLA and the rest of the world about 'suspected' wrong doings when actually someone has used a shell from a car that was probably classed as a 'banger' at the time and was probably going for scrap anyway to restore a piece of motoring history. What benefit to the world would there be for there to be one less Broadspeed Capri around ? Who 'wins' from all the shouting about it ?

The person who originally owned this car did not have the money or skill to repair it so should it have been crushed and lost forever ?

Or is it just a little bit of jealousy, seeing what the vehicle is worth now ?

Because when you look at nearly all the works Lotus Cortinas, MkI Escorts, MkII Escort, all the real famous ones from back in the day, that currently command 6 figure price tags they have all been re-shelled, some as many as 5 times in their working lives.

Does that mean they arent 'the car' has it devalued them in any way ? I dont think so.

taz1787

iTrader: (8)

also i know of a car that started life as a
h reg xr3i mk4 escort tintop and was reshelled into a
d reg xr3i cabriolet shell the owner
contacted dvla they said to keep reg it would have to under go a vic test
and have 75% / 8 points of the original car otherwise a q plate
the reshell was done by him and his mate
then took to mot station on h reg plates with id of old h reg shell in his hand and
d reg i.d. attached (where ford put it back in 1988) as it should be
car got mot after he explained what was happening etc
re phoned dvla who said they would send out paperwork for vic test
a month went by and nothing
so he decided to send logbook away as a change of chassis number (like you would if you had a respray a diff colour or new engine etc)
and also putting it down as a cabriolet in the process (hoping this would alert them into sending on vic test paper or at least contacting him)
but instead came back the logbook with
H plate registration on
and the d reg vin number
and down as a cabriolet
so thats proved everybody theories about dvla actually giving a shite completely wrong

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

There's no point in me trying to explain after reading your above post!

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Buy a replacement shell off BMW then!! They stamp the original VIN into the replacement shell but they do charge something like £3k extra until you return the old shell for disposal.

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

or raced neil ,this sunday 27-Sep me and my mates are heading to Hednesford Hills Cannock Stafordshire for The Legendary Classic Banger Day-Destruction on a classic scale!! Pre-68 National Bangers (Unders & Overs).
there will be owners putting them old classic rot boxes to bed forever and in style,i will think of you when the big hits start comming,that original broadspeed capri should of gone round hednesford and then the big scrap pile in the sky

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

Everyone with a E plater just messed their pants

It's Czech Mate

That was my understanding but apparently not according to Martoon...although nobody can actually explain how apart from NYRS and I think that was just a lucky break and not the norm.

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

I would assume he meant these were rally cars, as no way in the world is it an easy task or economically viable to use a saff to build up a 3dr shell to full road spec, buying the 3dr interior and bodykit alone would eat up any profit. At the time Ford would sell you either a saff or 3dr shell for around £500 anyway, so why bother going the 3dr route.

Thats unless the 3dr donor car had cost them just a round at the local dodgy pub.

I have checked the build dates on probably 20 plus e plate 3drs now and every one of them was a Nov/Dec 86 build so none are using Saff IDs as these did not start until late 87

Also remember in the mid 90s 3dr and 500 prices were on there arse and nobody wanted to touch them with a barge pole so why spend all that time and effort to produce a car nobody at the time wanted to buy

As usual this threads gone off on the normal tangent, and real world experienced people are being questioned by internet experts who usually months earlier and saying "Hi Im new here, wheres the spark plugs on a cosworth"

The dvla over the years have changed the rules to suit them, and the local dvla offices interpret these rules a lot differently from region to region as well, so all the scenarios given in this thread could happen.

Dannn

Martin,

That's a shame as of all the people I defo value your opinion!

I do tend to see things very black and white and if someone can make me see something from a different perspective then I am willing to try and take it on board.

I pretty much see a car as the sum of it's parts. I would happily buy a car which is cat c/d. Been rolled down the road and repaired, re-shelled, stolen recovered, on a Q plate. I don't really care, it's just a car at the end of day which serves a purpose albeit from doing the school run to going sideways round a race track.

The thing I am trying to work out here is why an RS500 is apparently worth so much more than three door made to look like an RS500. To me they are identical and worth the same, however to most people the RS500 is worth a lot more. My question here is what gives it that increased value, it surely can't just be the registration document ?

Dan

rog

iTrader: (2)

Think this whole thread has been blown out of proportion TBH, reshelling a car is one thing, which all of you have done at some point it would seem, using the ID of a different car, and not replacing any of the bits on the"new" car with the old cars ID is what he guy has said, there's the difference, so all he owner has effectively done has swapped a cars ID. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, and neither should the rest of us, i'm sure no one will ever find out or be able to prove it now anyway.

fuzzy

^....which would definately be illegal if it was provable .

andrewg

what if it was a normal capri and not a "broadspeed"?

It's Czech Mate

It still the same, as far as I know theres not a documented legal way to use a second hand shell to reshell a car and keep the Id of the scrapped shell. Unless anbody would like to explain......


And i'd love to know as it would help me out a great deal with a project I have in mind!

fuzzy

....and i could have turned my e30 into a sport and sold it for a few grand more.

andrewg

and could you change the log book to sport?

and by the time you bought the sport extras and fitted them would it really be worth it?


rs 500 would start as a rs 500 and still be an rs 500 supposing it needed a re-shell at some point

your e 30 would never of been a sport,, a bit of difference there

fuzzy

yes you can change the log book . theryre known as birmingham sports.but if i had a crashed sport i couldnt swap the vin and few trinkets over to a 325 and sell it as a genuine sport
a sport is exactly the same shell, suspension, engine etc as a 325 apart from some cosmetics like obc and black headlining etc but worth 3 or 4 times as much as a 325.
so i could take a crashed sport and fit the vin to a basic 325 and still have a genuine sport if i retro fitted the extra parts from te sport? i wouldnt think so. there seems to be a bit of confusion on this thread about using new shells and changing the vin on already registered in use shells.
how can it be possible to use a standard 3 door shell and it would be a genuine rs500 but i couldnt do the same with a bmw sport?
thats got to be illegal?

andrewg

re-shell is a bit different from changing vin tags and headlining

fuzzy

yes, but the car in the o/p only seems to have been the original vin and document pinned to something complely different. i wouldnt call that a reshell as there doesnt seem to be anything original fitted and can likely be the result of something dishonest as the o/p still has the rolling shell? i thought a reshell had to use a reasonable amount of the original parts to keep the vin?
what would you say makes the car what it is? the reg and vin? the shell or the engine and running gear?

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

mate i was selling cars in the last recession in 1992,i saw the prices of new 24 grand sierra cos 4x4's drop 5 grand in a day and i saw second hand ones in the autotrader for more than brand new ford dealer ones,cosworths fell out of bed due to insurance but in 1994-5 they picked themselves right back up and i was selling them for loads more.
in 1995 i was selling relatives cars that i had bought for them for more money than they paid me cos the values had gone up.
the cosworth specialists i knew bought and sold and broke any cosworths,it was not hard to pick up a lookalike 3dr cos for about a grand in 1995 and use all the kit and shit to reshell the running gear from a 4dr cos into a brand new 3dr shell.
funny how you don't see 3dr lookalike cossies like you did back in the 90's,they were prime for breaking and selling back to cosworth owners.
so sorry to disagree paul matey but fook me there were tons more rs lookalikes round back in the day.
i used to do a roaring trade in lookalike rs's as the insurance was cheep and the car looked like a xr or a rs1600i or rs turbo etc.

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

PAUL S it looks like someone in the know to me

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

more like a story for every occasion

I bought my first 3dr in 1990 and have always owned one pretty much since then, so I followed prices closely throughout the 90s and price wise there was only a couple of grand max between an e plate saff and a 3dr during that time - the only economical way to convert a saff to a full road 3dr cosworth would be if you did not have to buy the 3dr parts.

Its not a case of a fibreglass kit from a rep and a lick of paint and bobs your uncle.

Off the top of my head you would need :-

Full interior
All Glass
All bodykit
Grille
Front Bumper
Rear bumper
Headlights
Tail lights
Wheels
Bonnet grilles
Door internals
Hatch Internals
Wiring loom

and a million little clips, brackets and bits and bobs, it would cost far more to buy than the extra couple of k you could sell if for over the saff you started with anyway

I also remember the last of the saffs being so hard to shift that they were reduced from the 25k list price to under the 19k company car tax break in place at the time and even then Ford were stuck with loads

They sold them off to plod for 10k each and there was an advert in Autocar, that if you were a business buyer you could have the last stock ones for 12k brand new

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

And all you would need is a stolen car for the 3rd party donor which everyone knows were quiet widely available at the time.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

He is ,