Beware Broadspeed capri !!!!! NOT
#81
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when you pay top money for a re-shell and then maybe can only sell it for half that,you may feel different.that it the main problem i see with unknown re-shelling.we all know that it has always gone on,but now with very high prices being payed for these rare cars,it's can have seroius consequences. aka log book cars!
I can see your point of view.... to some people the provenance of a car is everything the car should have been advertised as a re-shell obviously...IMO the fact that a 40 ish year old car has a good shell etc is far more important and i cant understand why people pay top whack for eg..mk2 rs when you could buy and built a better/quicker escort for far less but without an rs logbook but again thats just me?? I also think the author of this thread missed the boat here and should have done it himself he would have a broadspeed then wouldnt he or would he keep the doner cars id nope i dont think so??
#85
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i cant see how this can be legally classed as a reshell? its a totally different car using anothers dishonestly added identity.
but then how could it be proved none of the parts used are not from the original?
but then how could it be proved none of the parts used are not from the original?
#89
C.R.E.A.M.
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big can of worms this one.
i would like to see a pole on here regards who would want a reshelled rs using a non standard rs shell thats cobbled to look like one.
or
who would be fookin livid to find out their resto'd mint "original" low miles high amount of owners rs was rebuilt on the quiet using a shell that previously had another completely different id.
the way it looks to me if you buy a rs thats had a significant restoration is you want pics as proof the original car was restored or you could be buying a non std rebuilt car.
if the dvla say you can't use a shell with a different id to rebuild a car thats too far gone that car needs scrapping in the eyes of the dvla
i would like to see a pole on here regards who would want a reshelled rs using a non standard rs shell thats cobbled to look like one.
or
who would be fookin livid to find out their resto'd mint "original" low miles high amount of owners rs was rebuilt on the quiet using a shell that previously had another completely different id.
the way it looks to me if you buy a rs thats had a significant restoration is you want pics as proof the original car was restored or you could be buying a non std rebuilt car.
if the dvla say you can't use a shell with a different id to rebuild a car thats too far gone that car needs scrapping in the eyes of the dvla
#90
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There was a percentage thing with the DVLA years ago,to when a car has to be on a Q plate the original shell was a certain % the engine etc etc this all had to add to a certain % say 75% if it did not hit that mark its a mix of several cars so it would have to be a Q they did this so people know as it was not just for kit cars
IAN
IAN
#91
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There was a percentage thing with the DVLA years ago,to when a car has to be on a Q plate the original shell was a certain % the engine etc etc this all had to add to a certain % say 75% if it did not hit that mark its a mix of several cars so it would have to be a Q they did this so people know as it was not just for kit cars
IAN
IAN
It worked (and probably still does) on a points system, you had to get 8 points to be eligible to either retain the original reg, the shell was worth 5 points, steering rack weirdly was 2, engine was 1 point and so on. The original shell was worth the same points as a new one BUT a second-hand one was worth 0 and would be awarded a Q plate.
If you took a vehicle for inspection at the DVLA right now with a different VIN no to the original you would come away with a Q plate.
#94
PassionFord Post Whore!!
For me it's simple, the log book matches the shell as the shell has the serial number.
lets just say you have a laptop and it's fucked and out of warranty, but your mate has the same one under warrenty would you use that serial number to get it fixed?
Its mad is zimbabwe with cars if you sell a car you have to go with the seller and the buyer to a place and the shell and engine number are checked.
if they engine number or shell number look messed with your spending a night in jail, or if you chuck $200 at them they will not quite see the problem. loll
lets just say you have a laptop and it's fucked and out of warranty, but your mate has the same one under warrenty would you use that serial number to get it fixed?
Its mad is zimbabwe with cars if you sell a car you have to go with the seller and the buyer to a place and the shell and engine number are checked.
if they engine number or shell number look messed with your spending a night in jail, or if you chuck $200 at them they will not quite see the problem. loll
Last edited by JohnnyB; 24-09-2009 at 03:41 PM.
#95
Spelling Club King!
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Knickers - Twist!
What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?
I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!
What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?
I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!
#96
............
Knickers - Twist!
What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?
I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!
What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?
I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!
It cant carry its history correctly if reshelled into a shell that has previously had an id though can it..........it's not legal
Only a reshell into a new shell is legal
#97
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Knickers - Twist!
What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?
I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!
What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?
I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!
Thank god somone elas understands what i wrote
I have sold a few reshelled cars over the years and have always told the buyer and to be honest it has never put anyone of buying any of them
Paul
#98
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I wrote earlier that it isnt ilegal to use a second hand shell
This is the problem when people THINK they know but dont
I reshelled a car into a used shell and DVLA where ok with it , and YES i did tell the buyer and showed him piccs
Said car is still around today and is a regular at RSOC shows
#100
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If you can prove the old shells history and can give a good reason why you want to reshell the car you have there isnt a problem
I know that realy you should only use a brand new shell but i gave piccs and responded to every request from DVLA and they gave me the goahead to use the MINT used shell i had and even inspected the car and gave me a sertificate when completed , i also gave the certificate to the new owner so he was well aware of the cars history
#102
PassionFord Post Whore!!
For what it's worth, there is no legal and correct way to use a previously registered shell - it isn't regarded as a service part because a monocoque shell is regarded as the chassis - unless the car has a separate chassis like a Land Rover, for instance.
I built my Sierra up and had it registered in June. I used a brand new and receipted XR4i shell and a 1991 XR4x4 donor. The car needed to pass the SVA test and be inspected by DVLA but I now have a car with a log book that says it was manufactured in 1991 and registered in 2009.
It has a brand new VIN issued by DVLA, and got an age-related J Registration number. It did not get to keep the VIN or reg number from the donor.
The bit about "identity" that is problematic is these two numbers define the "identity" of the shell, and a car that has had its identity tampered with (eg cutting out one VIN and welding in another) should be on a Q plate but, if these old capris don't have a stamped VIN, how do you prove it any more than proving if the wiper motor has been replaced?
I built my Sierra up and had it registered in June. I used a brand new and receipted XR4i shell and a 1991 XR4x4 donor. The car needed to pass the SVA test and be inspected by DVLA but I now have a car with a log book that says it was manufactured in 1991 and registered in 2009.
It has a brand new VIN issued by DVLA, and got an age-related J Registration number. It did not get to keep the VIN or reg number from the donor.
The bit about "identity" that is problematic is these two numbers define the "identity" of the shell, and a car that has had its identity tampered with (eg cutting out one VIN and welding in another) should be on a Q plate but, if these old capris don't have a stamped VIN, how do you prove it any more than proving if the wiper motor has been replaced?
#107
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How the hell can you say im wrong when i have done it and have docs to prove i have done it
And to say i " got away with it " isnt exactly correct , getting away with somthing is a different to actually doing it with DVLA"s aproval and given documents stamped by them to show it was legit and with there aproval
Things may have changed since i did it but it isnt fair to say im wrong when im not
#108
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Martin
How the hell can you say im wrong when i have done it and have docs to prove i have done it
And to say i " got away with it " isnt exactly correct , getting away with somthing is a different to actually doing it with DVLA"s aproval and given documents stamped by them to show it was legit and with there aproval
Things may have changed since i did it but it isnt fair to say im wrong when im not
How the hell can you say im wrong when i have done it and have docs to prove i have done it
And to say i " got away with it " isnt exactly correct , getting away with somthing is a different to actually doing it with DVLA"s aproval and given documents stamped by them to show it was legit and with there aproval
Things may have changed since i did it but it isnt fair to say im wrong when im not
I'm saying you are wrong because you are BUT I'm not calling you a liar, I can well believe that you got the paperwork done legitimately through the local DVLA office because half of them didn't know their arse from their elbow back then
By saying that you 'got away with it' I wasn't implying you were up to anything dodgy, you got away with it because you didn't get a Q plate.
I have already given my views on this and I personally don't have a problem with shell swapping, if my Firenza was a post Jan 73 it would be getting a paperwork reshell to a 1972... Free tax baby!
#109
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I'm saying you are wrong because you are BUT I'm not calling you a liar, I can well believe that you got the paperwork done legitimately through the local DVLA office because half of them didn't know their arse from their elbow back then
By saying that you 'got away with it' I wasn't implying you were up to anything dodgy, you got away with it because you didn't get a Q plate.
I have already given my views on this and I personally don't have a problem with shell swapping, if my Firenza was a post Jan 73 it would be getting a paperwork reshell to a 1972... Free tax baby!
By saying that you 'got away with it' I wasn't implying you were up to anything dodgy, you got away with it because you didn't get a Q plate.
I have already given my views on this and I personally don't have a problem with shell swapping, if my Firenza was a post Jan 73 it would be getting a paperwork reshell to a 1972... Free tax baby!
Tax free Now theres a saying i like
I wonder how many people on here have owned or will own a reshelled car and dont / wont even know
I still say i would much rather have an old mk2 that has had a shell swap ( or ringed as they say on here ) than one thats had more patches than ya grannys bed cover
#110
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Just out of curiousity, would you guys pay top dollar for this car
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-ESCORT-MK...3A1%7C294%3A50
Im looking for a mk1/2 escort RS at the moment and personally wouldn't touch a reshell. But thats just my preferance. A mexico with a pinto doesnt bother me for example. I also understand peoples opinions differ, as where does it stop when the original shell has had new wings/panels/sills/roofskins/floorpans etc
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-ESCORT-MK...3A1%7C294%3A50
Im looking for a mk1/2 escort RS at the moment and personally wouldn't touch a reshell. But thats just my preferance. A mexico with a pinto doesnt bother me for example. I also understand peoples opinions differ, as where does it stop when the original shell has had new wings/panels/sills/roofskins/floorpans etc
Last edited by PT; 24-09-2009 at 06:52 PM.
#111
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Dan
1, i would ask for proof that the shell they have is in fact the old shell from the 500
2, I would find out if the reshell was into a brand new shell , if yes then i dont see a problem at all and wouldnt devalue the 500 one penny
If the car was reshelled into a used shell then i would say its up to the owner of the 500 to see how he feels
Personaly i dont worry about reshelled cars if done into a brand new shell ,
I agree that into a used shell isnt perfect but if the car is improved from being reshelled into a legitimate used shell then the owny person who should worry is the owner
Many classic very high value cars have been reshelled over the years and as long as its a correct shell and the car is mint who cares
All i would do if i know of a car being reshelled is inform the potential buyer and let them decide
When we are talking about cars 30 years old etc who cares
1, i would ask for proof that the shell they have is in fact the old shell from the 500
2, I would find out if the reshell was into a brand new shell , if yes then i dont see a problem at all and wouldnt devalue the 500 one penny
If the car was reshelled into a used shell then i would say its up to the owner of the 500 to see how he feels
Personaly i dont worry about reshelled cars if done into a brand new shell ,
I agree that into a used shell isnt perfect but if the car is improved from being reshelled into a legitimate used shell then the owny person who should worry is the owner
Many classic very high value cars have been reshelled over the years and as long as its a correct shell and the car is mint who cares
All i would do if i know of a car being reshelled is inform the potential buyer and let them decide
When we are talking about cars 30 years old etc who cares
I have to say I really don't agree with your views on this especially as your the RS500 registrar. However you do stand by your own views which I can't help but respect !
As you saw on another thread I personally see nothing special about RS500's. They are a modded well over priced three door in my opinion. To me an RS500 is worth a few hundred quid over an identical three door as a pure selling point - the same as an Escort Cosworth Monte. However, lots of other people do not share my opinion and are willing to pay 'stupid' money for them.
Now an RS500 is not like an RS200. These are a proper limited run car and hence cannot be re-produced from another car. Hence why for these I doubt a buyer gives a toss about the chassis numbers, engine numbers etc etc. The car is unique by it's shell and the rest of the parts...they really is less than 200 in existence.
Now the RS500, its pretty easy to buy the parts and make a normal three door just like one. God, if you really want to you could buy all new parts and build a brand new RS500. The thing is, does that make them an 'RS500' - do they suddenly become worth the same as an RS500 which rolled out of the Tickford - to the masses I doubt it!
My guess is the reason why people are willing to pay stupid money for an RS500 is because they want a car which rolled through the Tickford factory to make the three door a true 'RS500'.
I suspect these buyers/owners would expect the shell to be the actual one which rolled through the factory along with it's original RS500 block with all with the correct chasss/engine numbers and relating registration number. These are it's providence which must give it it's value, anything else and personally I don't think it's an 'RS500' anymore else any three door made into an RS500 will also be one....
Dan
#112
PF Idiot Sniper
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I suspect these buyers/owners would expect the shell to be the actual one which rolled through the factory along with it's original RS500 block with all with the correct chasss/engine numbers and relating registration number. These are it's providence which must give it it's value, anything else and personally I don't think it's an 'RS500' anymore else any three door made into an RS500 will also be one....
Dan
Dan
#113
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My guess is the reason why people are willing to pay stupid money for an RS500 is because they want a car which rolled through the Tickford factory to make the three door a true 'RS500'.
I suspect these buyers/owners would expect the shell to be the actual one which rolled through the factory along with it's original RS500 block with all with the correct chasss/engine numbers and relating registration number. These are it's providence which must give it it's value, anything else and personally I don't think it's an 'RS500' anymore else any three door made into an RS500 will also be one....
Dan
if i was to buy one i would want an original too....BUT that comes at a premium...a re-shelled car would be significantly cheaper as Paul has said.
as long as the buyer is aware then its his choice then.
#114
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Paul,
I have to say I really don't agree with your views on this especially as your the RS500 registrar. However you do stand by your own views which I can't help but respect !
As you saw on another thread I personally see nothing special about RS500's. They are a modded well over priced three door in my opinion. To me an RS500 is worth a few hundred quid over an identical three door as a pure selling point - the same as an Escort Cosworth Monte. However, lots of other people do not share my opinion and are willing to pay 'stupid' money for them.
Now an RS500 is not like an RS200. These are a proper limited run car and hence cannot be re-produced from another car. Hence why for these I doubt a buyer gives a toss about the chassis numbers, engine numbers etc etc. The car is unique by it's shell and the rest of the parts...they really is less than 200 in existence.
Now the RS500, its pretty easy to buy the parts and make a normal three door just like one. God, if you really want to you could buy all new parts and build a brand new RS500. The thing is, does that make them an 'RS500' - do they suddenly become worth the same as an RS500 which rolled out of the Tickford - to the masses I doubt it!
My guess is the reason why people are willing to pay stupid money for an RS500 is because they want a car which rolled through the Tickford factory to make the three door a true 'RS500'.
I suspect these buyers/owners would expect the shell to be the actual one which rolled through the factory along with it's original RS500 block with all with the correct chasss/engine numbers and relating registration number. These are it's providence which must give it it's value, anything else and personally I don't think it's an 'RS500' anymore else any three door made into an RS500 will also be one....
Dan
I have to say I really don't agree with your views on this especially as your the RS500 registrar. However you do stand by your own views which I can't help but respect !
As you saw on another thread I personally see nothing special about RS500's. They are a modded well over priced three door in my opinion. To me an RS500 is worth a few hundred quid over an identical three door as a pure selling point - the same as an Escort Cosworth Monte. However, lots of other people do not share my opinion and are willing to pay 'stupid' money for them.
Now an RS500 is not like an RS200. These are a proper limited run car and hence cannot be re-produced from another car. Hence why for these I doubt a buyer gives a toss about the chassis numbers, engine numbers etc etc. The car is unique by it's shell and the rest of the parts...they really is less than 200 in existence.
Now the RS500, its pretty easy to buy the parts and make a normal three door just like one. God, if you really want to you could buy all new parts and build a brand new RS500. The thing is, does that make them an 'RS500' - do they suddenly become worth the same as an RS500 which rolled out of the Tickford - to the masses I doubt it!
My guess is the reason why people are willing to pay stupid money for an RS500 is because they want a car which rolled through the Tickford factory to make the three door a true 'RS500'.
I suspect these buyers/owners would expect the shell to be the actual one which rolled through the factory along with it's original RS500 block with all with the correct chasss/engine numbers and relating registration number. These are it's providence which must give it it's value, anything else and personally I don't think it's an 'RS500' anymore else any three door made into an RS500 will also be one....
Dan
a rs500 shell is a totaly std 3 door shell , so if it has been reshelled into a brand new shell it carries the old chassie number so therfore is still a 500 same as a reshelled std 3 door would still be a std 3 door
Now i agree a reshell into a used shell isnt good , but to be honest if its done so you cant tell ( ie numbers swapped over ) how would we know anyway ,
Plus i dont think you realise just what is different from a real 500 to a std 3 door
#116
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I sold a 23,000 miles from new rs500 for 15k because it was a reshell even tho it was HPI clear , that was some years ago tho
Having said that i still would rather have a HPI clear reshell 500 than one thats had loads of panels due to crash repairs
Plus how do you know if its been reshelled if its HPI clear unless previous owners tell you
#117
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IMO it shouldnt , but in reality it does as some people for some reason are bothered
Price depends on so many factors i cant say that if its a reshell then its worth X less because it doesnt realy effect the price to everyone , just them who dont understand
ie, Whats the difference between a car thats stripped to a bare shell and has majour repairs and then rebuilt for lets say concourse to a car thats stripped to a bare shell then built back up into a brand new shell but still has the gen 500 ID
I know i would rather have the one in a new shell than a welded fillered old one
And both examples are still gen 500"s
#118
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Dan
a rs500 shell is a totaly std 3 door shell , so if it has been reshelled into a brand new shell it carries the old chassie number so therfore is still a 500 same as a reshelled std 3 door would still be a std 3 door
Now i agree a reshell into a used shell isnt good , but to be honest if its done so you cant tell ( ie numbers swapped over ) how would we know anyway ,
Plus i dont think you realise just what is different from a real 500 to a std 3 door
a rs500 shell is a totaly std 3 door shell , so if it has been reshelled into a brand new shell it carries the old chassie number so therfore is still a 500 same as a reshelled std 3 door would still be a std 3 door
Now i agree a reshell into a used shell isnt good , but to be honest if its done so you cant tell ( ie numbers swapped over ) how would we know anyway ,
Plus i dont think you realise just what is different from a real 500 to a std 3 door