evans2822

I can see your point of view.... to some people the provenance of a car is everything the car should have been advertised as a re-shell obviously...IMO the fact that a 40 ish year old car has a good shell etc is far more important and i cant understand why people pay top whack for eg..mk2 rs when you could buy and built a better/quicker escort for far less but without an rs logbook but again thats just me?? I also think the author of this thread missed the boat here and should have done it himself he would have a broadspeed then wouldnt he or would he keep the doner cars id nope i dont think so??

Pob

Wow, real eye opener this thread.

Jim Galbally

jesus christ and youre the fucking rs500 registrar!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

And your point is ??

fuzzy

i cant see how this can be legally classed as a reshell? its a totally different car using anothers dishonestly added identity.
but then how could it be proved none of the parts used are not from the original?

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

This is the issue , How can you 100% prove anything with such an old car

And how can the lad with the origonal; shell prove it is the origonal shell as he has now got no ID for it

This is the big issue , he says she says

white2lsr

iTrader: (1)

I would be contacting 'North York vehicle ringers' for that mate

andy escos

iTrader: (1)

ive just checked on e bay & its still on there current bid Ł7,050

cozzfather

iTrader: (1)

big can of worms this one.

i would like to see a pole on here regards who would want a reshelled rs using a non standard rs shell thats cobbled to look like one.

or

who would be fookin livid to find out their resto'd mint "original" low miles high amount of owners rs was rebuilt on the quiet using a shell that previously had another completely different id.


the way it looks to me if you buy a rs thats had a significant restoration is you want pics as proof the original car was restored or you could be buying a non std rebuilt car.

if the dvla say you can't use a shell with a different id to rebuild a car thats too far gone that car needs scrapping in the eyes of the dvla

IAN RS2k

iTrader: (2)

There was a percentage thing with the DVLA years ago,to when a car has to be on a Q plate the original shell was a certain % the engine etc etc this all had to add to a certain % say 75% if it did not hit that mark its a mix of several cars so it would have to be a Q they did this so people know as it was not just for kit cars

IAN

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

It worked (and probably still does) on a points system, you had to get 8 points to be eligible to either retain the original reg, the shell was worth 5 points, steering rack weirdly was 2, engine was 1 point and so on. The original shell was worth the same points as a new one BUT a second-hand one was worth 0 and would be awarded a Q plate.

If you took a vehicle for inspection at the DVLA right now with a different VIN no to the original you would come away with a Q plate.

FOCUSTARD PIE

iTrader: (7)

He's withdrawn my old Broadspeed, thats his other ex race one still for sale.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Dickhead

JohnnyB

For me it's simple, the log book matches the shell as the shell has the serial number.

lets just say you have a laptop and it's fucked and out of warranty, but your mate has the same one under warrenty would you use that serial number to get it fixed?


Its mad is zimbabwe with cars if you sell a car you have to go with the seller and the buyer to a place and the shell and engine number are checked.

if they engine number or shell number look messed with your spending a night in jail, or if you chuck $200 at them they will not quite see the problem. loll

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Knickers - Twist!

What Paul wrote seems utterly fair to me. If a reshell has been carried out and the 'truth' hidden from any potential owners then that's out of order, but if the car carries its history correctly, why should a reshell be an issue?

I'd way rather have a mint reshelled car than a ropey old 'correctly numbered' shitter!

It's Czech Mate

It cant carry its history correctly if reshelled into a shell that has previously had an id though can it..........it's not legal

Only a reshell into a new shell is legal

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Thank god somone elas understands what i wrote

I have sold a few reshelled cars over the years and have always told the buyer and to be honest it has never put anyone of buying any of them

Paul

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

I wrote earlier that it isnt ilegal to use a second hand shell

This is the problem when people THINK they know but dont

I reshelled a car into a used shell and DVLA where ok with it , and YES i did tell the buyer and showed him piccs
Said car is still around today and is a regular at RSOC shows

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

You were lucky and got someone who didn't know what they were doing Paul, going by their rules thats Q plate city. Btw I DO know the rules, hell I broke them often enough

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Martin

If you can prove the old shells history and can give a good reason why you want to reshell the car you have there isnt a problem

I know that realy you should only use a brand new shell but i gave piccs and responded to every request from DVLA and they gave me the goahead to use the MINT used shell i had and even inspected the car and gave me a sertificate when completed , i also gave the certificate to the new owner so he was well aware of the cars history

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Sorry Paul you are 100% wrong, you may have got away with it once but it won't happen again. Even if the donor shell is newer they still wont carry the old reg over, call them and find I'm correct

Iain Mac

For what it's worth, there is no legal and correct way to use a previously registered shell - it isn't regarded as a service part because a monocoque shell is regarded as the chassis - unless the car has a separate chassis like a Land Rover, for instance.

I built my Sierra up and had it registered in June. I used a brand new and receipted XR4i shell and a 1991 XR4x4 donor. The car needed to pass the SVA test and be inspected by DVLA but I now have a car with a log book that says it was manufactured in 1991 and registered in 2009.

It has a brand new VIN issued by DVLA, and got an age-related J Registration number. It did not get to keep the VIN or reg number from the donor.

The bit about "identity" that is problematic is these two numbers define the "identity" of the shell, and a car that has had its identity tampered with (eg cutting out one VIN and welding in another) should be on a Q plate but, if these old capris don't have a stamped VIN, how do you prove it any more than proving if the wiper motor has been replaced?

white2lsr

iTrader: (1)

Easy tiger, you cant get on the defensive when you have posted several statements saying that you find a process which is basically ringing a vehicle acceptable.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Ringing is when one of the cars / shells involved is not legit

So dont call me a ringer

Dickhead

Iain Mac

But the point is that changing the identity of a shell is NOT legit, even if you properly and legitimately own the two shells.

white2lsr

iTrader: (1)

True. Calling someone a dickhead would imply they have a penis growing from their head, which I dont, so dont call me a dickhead.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Martin

How the hell can you say im wrong when i have done it and have docs to prove i have done it

And to say i " got away with it " isnt exactly correct , getting away with somthing is a different to actually doing it with DVLA"s aproval and given documents stamped by them to show it was legit and with there aproval

Things may have changed since i did it but it isnt fair to say im wrong when im not

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I'm saying you are wrong because you are BUT I'm not calling you a liar, I can well believe that you got the paperwork done legitimately through the local DVLA office because half of them didn't know their arse from their elbow back then

By saying that you 'got away with it' I wasn't implying you were up to anything dodgy, you got away with it because you didn't get a Q plate.

I have already given my views on this and I personally don't have a problem with shell swapping, if my Firenza was a post Jan 73 it would be getting a paperwork reshell to a 1972... Free tax baby!

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

To be honest Martin its all irrelivant anyway because the PF brigade will only call us who have don it ringers anyway even tho they dont even know the meaning of the word

Tax free Now theres a saying i like

I wonder how many people on here have owned or will own a reshelled car and dont / wont even know

I still say i would much rather have an old mk2 that has had a shell swap ( or ringed as they say on here ) than one thats had more patches than ya grannys bed cover

PT

Just out of curiousity, would you guys pay top dollar for this car

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-ESCORT-MK...3A1%7C294%3A50

Im looking for a mk1/2 escort RS at the moment and personally wouldn't touch a reshell. But thats just my preferance. A mexico with a pinto doesnt bother me for example. I also understand peoples opinions differ, as where does it stop when the original shell has had new wings/panels/sills/roofskins/floorpans etc

Dannn

Paul,

I have to say I really don't agree with your views on this especially as your the RS500 registrar. However you do stand by your own views which I can't help but respect !

As you saw on another thread I personally see nothing special about RS500's. They are a modded well over priced three door in my opinion. To me an RS500 is worth a few hundred quid over an identical three door as a pure selling point - the same as an Escort Cosworth Monte. However, lots of other people do not share my opinion and are willing to pay 'stupid' money for them.

Now an RS500 is not like an RS200. These are a proper limited run car and hence cannot be re-produced from another car. Hence why for these I doubt a buyer gives a toss about the chassis numbers, engine numbers etc etc. The car is unique by it's shell and the rest of the parts...they really is less than 200 in existence.

Now the RS500, its pretty easy to buy the parts and make a normal three door just like one. God, if you really want to you could buy all new parts and build a brand new RS500. The thing is, does that make them an 'RS500' - do they suddenly become worth the same as an RS500 which rolled out of the Tickford - to the masses I doubt it!

My guess is the reason why people are willing to pay stupid money for an RS500 is because they want a car which rolled through the Tickford factory to make the three door a true 'RS500'.

I suspect these buyers/owners would expect the shell to be the actual one which rolled through the factory along with it's original RS500 block with all with the correct chasss/engine numbers and relating registration number. These are it's providence which must give it it's value, anything else and personally I don't think it's an 'RS500' anymore else any three door made into an RS500 will also be one....

Dan

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

100% agree and i'd be GUTTED if i found out bad history on my dream rs500!

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

if i was to buy one i would want an original too....BUT that comes at a premium...a re-shelled car would be significantly cheaper as Paul has said.

as long as the buyer is aware then its his choice then.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Dan

a rs500 shell is a totaly std 3 door shell , so if it has been reshelled into a brand new shell it carries the old chassie number so therfore is still a 500 same as a reshelled std 3 door would still be a std 3 door

Now i agree a reshell into a used shell isnt good , but to be honest if its done so you cant tell ( ie numbers swapped over ) how would we know anyway ,

Plus i dont think you realise just what is different from a real 500 to a std 3 door

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

how does it affect the value on your reshelled 500 paul? did i see you say it doesnt as it was at ford or something?

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

and you know i stand by that Dave by the value placed on rs500"s i have sold over the years

I sold a 23,000 miles from new rs500 for 15k because it was a reshell even tho it was HPI clear , that was some years ago tho

Having said that i still would rather have a HPI clear reshell 500 than one thats had loads of panels due to crash repairs

Plus how do you know if its been reshelled if its HPI clear unless previous owners tell you

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

IMO it shouldnt , but in reality it does as some people for some reason are bothered

Price depends on so many factors i cant say that if its a reshell then its worth X less because it doesnt realy effect the price to everyone , just them who dont understand

ie, Whats the difference between a car thats stripped to a bare shell and has majour repairs and then rebuilt for lets say concourse to a car thats stripped to a bare shell then built back up into a brand new shell but still has the gen 500 ID

I know i would rather have the one in a new shell than a welded fillered old one

And both examples are still gen 500"s

Dannn

IMO as soon as an RS500 loses it's original shell it's no more an RS500 than a three door made into one. It's loses the biggest part of it's providence and is nothing special anymore...

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

Dann,

its still got the 500 id though and not a normal 3 door id, thats the difference.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

So a reshelled 3 door then isnt a 3 door anymore

Why do you say this ? if the shell was unique then i may agree but it isnt so why is it not a 500 anymore ?

Plus , if it was reshelled into a new shell and HPI clear how would you know