Beware Broadspeed capri !!!!! NOT
21-09-2009, 03:28 PM
#41
Steve
I know exactly what he means , but we all know the rs500"s id will be put onto the new ( used ) 3 door shell
People are talking here like this is a rear thing , i would bet at least 25% of fords over 20 years old have been reshelled into better shells
21-09-2009, 03:31 PM
#43
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Steve
I know exactly what he means , but we all know the rs500"s id will be put onto the new ( used ) 3 door shell
People are talking here like this is a rear thing , i would bet at least 25% of fords over 20 years old have been reshelled into better shells
I know exactly what he means , but we all know the rs500"s id will be put onto the new ( used ) 3 door shell
People are talking here like this is a rear thing , i would bet at least 25% of fords over 20 years old have been reshelled into better shells
21-09-2009, 03:31 PM
#44
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I personally think your wrong - a car which is reshelled using a second hand shell should take the reg plate from the donor shell or go on a Q plate. I take a read of DVLA web site and see what they say, if I'm wrong then I've learnt something today...
21-09-2009, 03:32 PM
#45
Done a bit of research in the last 20 mins and apparently this is what is/is not acceptable, but i do accept i could be wrong but judging from what i've pulled up, m99% of it is the same.
From what his original post has said it should be on a Q plate as he hasn't used any bits from the old car to warrant it being registered on the old ID. Not saying i disapprove, but it's what is generally acceptaed as legal, so could prove problematic. I wouldn't have a problem with this aslong as I knew 100% the cars history.
To retain the I.D the points are, you cannot re-use a 2nd hand shell that's been registered in the past, or yiu HAVE to use the OLD donor shell ID or Q plate. If you use a new shell you must retain a certain amount of parts to keep the I.D./Reg No. And thats it. There are no other ways around it. You cannot transfer the number plate from one to the other either, that would be illegal
21-09-2009, 03:32 PM
#46
how many works mk1/2 escorts got new shells after every rall y...loads lol
and for years after escorts have had shell changes left right and centre and the id has stayed with the first car lol
how many escort cosworth rally cars did you used to see on f,g,h plates using the doner sierra cars id!
steve
and for years after escorts have had shell changes left right and centre and the id has stayed with the first car lol
how many escort cosworth rally cars did you used to see on f,g,h plates using the doner sierra cars id!
steve
21-09-2009, 03:38 PM
#49
Done a bit of research in the last 20 mins and apparently this is what is/is not acceptable, but i do accept i could be wrong but judging from what i've pulled up, m99% of it is the same.
From what his original post has said it should be on a Q plate as he hasn't used any bits from the old car to warrant it being registered on the old ID. Not saying i disapprove, but it's what is generally acceptaed as legal, so could prove problematic. I wouldn't have a problem with this aslong as I knew 100% the cars history.
From what his original post has said it should be on a Q plate as he hasn't used any bits from the old car to warrant it being registered on the old ID. Not saying i disapprove, but it's what is generally acceptaed as legal, so could prove problematic. I wouldn't have a problem with this aslong as I knew 100% the cars history.
this car is 99% wrong and not a Broadspeed.
21-09-2009, 03:38 PM
#50
When i looked into re-sheeling my 3door into a brand new sheel i was told you must have a recipt from the main dealer and you can not use another shell thats already been registered.
what his done IS illigel and belive me the poilce would be very interested in this. but sadly it would proberbly result in another old skool ford being crushed by the rozzers
what his done IS illigel and belive me the poilce would be very interested in this. but sadly it would proberbly result in another old skool ford being crushed by the rozzers
it starts getting iffy when someone finds out a car with a id has been used to rebuild another car with a id,it can be the judge's decision,the dvla's/vosa's or the copper who sorts it all out but i wouldn't want a car thats known to be rebuilt with another cars shell.
the problem is with the old fords they don't have stamps on the shells so you can swap tags and plates and hey presto.
on fords with stamped vin numbers if you swap them and don't say anything but you can tell or a expert can spot they have been changed people in authority can think the worst ie the car is now a ringer. if you have the original vin numbers or pics it can explain why a car has had its id messed about with but that devalues the car so people keep shtumm.
unless your name is Gwyn and you don't care about your bollocks getting bitten
Last edited by cozzfather; 21-09-2009 at 03:41 PM.
21-09-2009, 03:46 PM
#51
I know of a famous mk2 escort rally car that has a gen mk1 16oo twin cam logbook
we all know that DVLA have rules ( as stated above ) but if you contact them you will be amazed what you can do
I contacted them about a white 3 door i had that was rotten , i told them i had another ( used shell) that had no id and that i wanted to reshell into it
They told me to take piccs of the car and donor shell and send them to them
They then gave me permission to do this and retain the old cars ID , they even asked me to drive the car to the local DVLA offce when complete and they checked it and gave me a sertificate for the car
So it is legal , as long as you inform them
Or you could just do it as most people do and keep your mouth shut
we all know that DVLA have rules ( as stated above ) but if you contact them you will be amazed what you can do
I contacted them about a white 3 door i had that was rotten , i told them i had another ( used shell) that had no id and that i wanted to reshell into it
They told me to take piccs of the car and donor shell and send them to them
They then gave me permission to do this and retain the old cars ID , they even asked me to drive the car to the local DVLA offce when complete and they checked it and gave me a sertificate for the car
So it is legal , as long as you inform them
Or you could just do it as most people do and keep your mouth shut
21-09-2009, 03:53 PM
#52
I know of a famous mk2 escort rally car that has a gen mk1 16oo twin cam logbook
we all know that DVLA have rules ( as stated above ) but if you contact them you will be amazed what you can do
I contacted them about a white 3 door i had that was rotten , i told them i had another ( used shell) that had no id and that i wanted to reshell into it
They told me to take piccs of the car and donor shell and send them to them
They then gave me permission to do this and retain the old cars ID , they even asked me to drive the car to the local DVLA offce when complete and they checked it and gave me a sertificate for the car
So it is legal , as long as you inform them
Or you could just do it as most people do and keep your mouth shut
we all know that DVLA have rules ( as stated above ) but if you contact them you will be amazed what you can do
I contacted them about a white 3 door i had that was rotten , i told them i had another ( used shell) that had no id and that i wanted to reshell into it
They told me to take piccs of the car and donor shell and send them to them
They then gave me permission to do this and retain the old cars ID , they even asked me to drive the car to the local DVLA offce when complete and they checked it and gave me a sertificate for the car
So it is legal , as long as you inform them
Or you could just do it as most people do and keep your mouth shut
i know the ex works escort too and i even have a magazine where the famous driver who drove it as a works mk1 drove it again as a mk2 and said how the last time he saw it the car didn't look like that
,he even drove a works gpa 3dr sierra in a back to back test against it.i have found what you know can affect what the person down your local dvla does,in a lot of cases you can bamboozle them into stuff without them knowing as they even don't understand what happens with cars as most of them are not car people.
21-09-2009, 04:58 PM
#56
I contacted them about a white 3 door i had that was rotten , i told them i had another ( used shell) that had no id and that i wanted to reshell into it
They told me to take piccs of the car and donor shell and send them to them
They then gave me permission to do this and retain the old cars ID , they even asked me to drive the car to the local DVLA offce when complete and they checked it and gave me a sertificate for the car
So it is legal , as long as you inform them
imo of course
I do personally agree - if you own both vehicles
Last edited by BRAMMER; 21-09-2009 at 05:00 PM.
21-09-2009, 05:22 PM
#57
[quote=BRAMMER;4409987]I can't see the police having the same level of understanding as they're trying to cut vehicle ringing not increase it, regardless to the vehicle being stolen or converted by the owner.
imo of course
Well if DVLA are happy and have records that i have done it the police cant do fuck all about it
Oh and it wasnt ringing because neither car was stolen
it was a simple reshell but with a used shell rather than a new one
imo of course
Well if DVLA are happy and have records that i have done it the police cant do fuck all about it
Oh and it wasnt ringing because neither car was stolen
it was a simple reshell but with a used shell rather than a new one
21-09-2009, 06:30 PM
#58
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old landrover are still done this way, my dad sold his tax exempt series 3 for £700 with a dropped valve, no floor no gearbox and the chassis was rotten as hell.
WHY so much intrest when he sold it? for the ID
doenst make it right though.
WHY so much intrest when he sold it? for the ID
doenst make it right though.
22-09-2009, 04:13 AM
#59
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just goes to show you may spend £££££s and not get the ORIGINAL car from the factory that you think you are buying
i know what people are saying but know come to think about it it would put me off knowning that 3 doors have been turned in RS500'sand only paying more for the reg plate,vin etc etc NOT the genuine artical
i know what people are saying but know come to think about it it would put me off knowning that 3 doors have been turned in RS500'sand only paying more for the reg plate,vin etc etc NOT the genuine artical
Last edited by CRAIG HAYTER; 22-09-2009 at 04:14 AM.
22-09-2009, 06:58 AM
#60
This is the reply from the seller.
hi kevin
many thanks for your email,,,it was a bit of a shock to read it!!! ibought this car off a guy down on the south coast,and it was a wreck,,i toyed with the idea of scraping it but because of what it was i had it restored,,new wings sills a posts etc etc etc
he said that it may have been reshelled many years ago because of an accident,,but i scraped around in the places where most people dont look and the car is definately a tawny bronze shell and also a genuine 3 litre shell ,i was lucky enough to track down the 2nd owner from new,who stuffed it through a brick wall back in the mid seventies,,and sold it on unrepaired,,obviously someone had it repaired,or maybe even the shell you have isnt the original either,all very confusing mate!!, i have the original engine,but its out for a rebuild at the moment,chassis plate is also on the car too,,
ive restored quite a few capris over the years,and would be interested in the shell you have,im doing a daytona yellow 3000e at the moment and thats pretty rotten too,,,
many thanks for your info,i will probably withdraw it from sale
ps i hope my other broadspeed hasnt suffered the same fate!!!
kind regards
nige
hi kevin
many thanks for your email,,,it was a bit of a shock to read it!!! ibought this car off a guy down on the south coast,and it was a wreck,,i toyed with the idea of scraping it but because of what it was i had it restored,,new wings sills a posts etc etc etc
he said that it may have been reshelled many years ago because of an accident,,but i scraped around in the places where most people dont look and the car is definately a tawny bronze shell and also a genuine 3 litre shell ,i was lucky enough to track down the 2nd owner from new,who stuffed it through a brick wall back in the mid seventies,,and sold it on unrepaired,,obviously someone had it repaired,or maybe even the shell you have isnt the original either,all very confusing mate!!, i have the original engine,but its out for a rebuild at the moment,chassis plate is also on the car too,,
ive restored quite a few capris over the years,and would be interested in the shell you have,im doing a daytona yellow 3000e at the moment and thats pretty rotten too,,,
many thanks for your info,i will probably withdraw it from sale
ps i hope my other broadspeed hasnt suffered the same fate!!!
kind regards
nige
22-09-2009, 07:04 AM
#61
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sounds like a genuine bloke to be fair thats got cought out by the dude that took your vin tags
on a car THAT old i'd have to say it really wouldn't bother me....................
edit, meant to say it WOULDNT bother me doh!
on a car THAT old i'd have to say it really wouldn't bother me....................
edit, meant to say it WOULDNT bother me doh!
Last edited by rsnissan; 22-09-2009 at 08:41 AM.
22-09-2009, 07:08 AM
#62
PassionFord Post Troll
what would happen if you replaced an engine that had already been registered in another car? then maybe the interior was shagged so that was repaced too then the shell was rotten so it was patched up to death,,, bascily over twenty odd years what would still original on the car,,would that be ok? parts get replace on cars with second parts all the time an engine is no different from a shell..at the end of the day he has built it back to the way it should be, and if that ment replacing the shell then fair enough,
and ringing would be where you blatently take plates from one car (possibly damaged) and stick them on a stolen one.
and ringing would be where you blatently take plates from one car (possibly damaged) and stick them on a stolen one.
22-09-2009, 07:40 AM
#63
what would happen if you replaced an engine that had already been registered in another car? then maybe the interior was shagged so that was repaced too then the shell was rotten so it was patched up to death,,, bascily over twenty odd years what would still original on the car,,would that be ok? parts get replace on cars with second parts all the time an engine is no different from a shell..at the end of the day he has built it back to the way it should be, and if that ment replacing the shell then fair enough,
and ringing would be where you blatently take plates from one car (possibly damaged) and stick them on a stolen one.
and ringing would be where you blatently take plates from one car (possibly damaged) and stick them on a stolen one.
glad to see im not the only one with common sence on here
Who realy gives a shit , If i went to look at this car and the shell / engine etc was correct ( by that i mean had the correct bits and bobs ) i wouldnt give a shit if it had been reshelled etc as long as all the correct parts were there and the car was in good nick
People get confused between a gen resto that requires a bit of swoping and changing with ringing that is where people swap the ID from damaged cars ( quite ofter only months old ) onto stolen cars
As said before we all know that most mk1 and 2 escorts have been reshelled in mint 1,3 etc shells so why not an old capri
22-09-2009, 08:34 AM
#66
Its been going on since the dawn of time,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
there was a famous case about a car known as old no 1 as well that went to the high court
even Boyd Coddington of American Hot Rod got caught doing it
I would say let it lie, you got paid for it originally, no ones lost out , and you could weigh in the old shell so you will even get a few more quid
Be thankfull the parts stayed together and formed another car rather than ending up on a load of old snotters that would have ended up in the crusher over the years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
there was a famous case about a car known as old no 1 as well that went to the high court
even Boyd Coddington of American Hot Rod got caught doing it
I would say let it lie, you got paid for it originally, no ones lost out , and you could weigh in the old shell so you will even get a few more quid
Be thankfull the parts stayed together and formed another car rather than ending up on a load of old snotters that would have ended up in the crusher over the years
22-09-2009, 08:48 AM
#67
I'm sure there was a big case regarding a very expensive and rare Bugatti a few years back, there was one side saying it wasn't original and the owners were saying that it was a very old car and in its liftime almost every component could have been changed over that period. The owners won as I recall.
Edited to say after reading Paul's post above, I think he's refering to the same car.
Edited to say after reading Paul's post above, I think he's refering to the same car.
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 22-09-2009 at 08:51 AM.
22-09-2009, 09:13 AM
#68
Its been going on since the dawn of time,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
there was a famous case about a car known as old no 1 as well that went to the high court
even Boyd Coddington of American Hot Rod got caught doing it
I would say let it lie, you got paid for it originally, no ones lost out , and you could weigh in the old shell so you will even get a few more quid
Be thankfull the parts stayed together and formed another car rather than ending up on a load of old snotters that would have ended up in the crusher over the years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
there was a famous case about a car known as old no 1 as well that went to the high court
even Boyd Coddington of American Hot Rod got caught doing it
I would say let it lie, you got paid for it originally, no ones lost out , and you could weigh in the old shell so you will even get a few more quid
Be thankfull the parts stayed together and formed another car rather than ending up on a load of old snotters that would have ended up in the crusher over the years
My main problem is that his car is only 1% original the reg doc.
I basically sold a Broadspeed capri engine/box and reg docs, he has the original engine but it is not fitted.
I dont believe he has done the dirty, this is down to Gwyne who I sold bits to.
22-09-2009, 09:19 AM
#69
But it's not your problem, he sounds genuine enough, take his money for the shell and leave it at that.. At least you get something for the rusty scrap
The guy who bought it wants hassle for not picking up the shell in the first place, he's not a pro ringer ..lol!
The guy who bought it wants hassle for not picking up the shell in the first place, he's not a pro ringer ..lol!
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 22-09-2009 at 09:21 AM.
22-09-2009, 09:25 AM
#70
judging by his reply and his ebay username i think he knows exactly what he has had to say in reply to your question,by saying a owner may of reshelled the car years before you implys that it doesn't matter about your shell and what has happened.
i think its more important to find original low owner or 1 owner cars that have never been tampered with,i much prefer original low owner or 1 owner cars to restored loads of owners cars as yes they could be a rs with a 1.3 shell.
i think its more important to find original low owner or 1 owner cars that have never been tampered with,i much prefer original low owner or 1 owner cars to restored loads of owners cars as yes they could be a rs with a 1.3 shell.
22-09-2009, 09:51 AM
#72
O.k guys, Its not worth the hassle so I'm going to let this go.
I'll speak to the guy and sell him the original shell if he wants it, as you say its cash for rusty crap
But still feel sorry for the person who buys it, thinking its original !
Thanks for all the great feedback guys
I'll speak to the guy and sell him the original shell if he wants it, as you say its cash for rusty crap
But still feel sorry for the person who buys it, thinking its original !
Thanks for all the great feedback guys
22-09-2009, 11:24 AM
#73
Advanced PassionFord User
hope any potential buyers will now know about the cars history, and not be paying top money for a re-shell. nearly bought a white broadspeed capri years ago,but the owner could not show me proof that it actually was one so i didn't.
22-09-2009, 12:40 PM
#74
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Andy
glad to see im not the only one with common sence on here
Who realy gives a shit , If i went to look at this car and the shell / engine etc was correct ( by that i mean had the correct bits and bobs ) i wouldnt give a shit if it had been reshelled etc as long as all the correct parts were there and the car was in good nick
People get confused between a gen resto that requires a bit of swoping and changing with ringing that is where people swap the ID from damaged cars ( quite ofter only months old ) onto stolen cars
As said before we all know that most mk1 and 2 escorts have been reshelled in mint 1,3 etc shells so why not an old capri
glad to see im not the only one with common sence on here
Who realy gives a shit , If i went to look at this car and the shell / engine etc was correct ( by that i mean had the correct bits and bobs ) i wouldnt give a shit if it had been reshelled etc as long as all the correct parts were there and the car was in good nick
People get confused between a gen resto that requires a bit of swoping and changing with ringing that is where people swap the ID from damaged cars ( quite ofter only months old ) onto stolen cars
As said before we all know that most mk1 and 2 escorts have been reshelled in mint 1,3 etc shells so why not an old capri
So let's fast forward 10 years and imagine an alleged genuine RS500 is for sale on ebay for £60K+. You even go and see said car and from your expert knowledge give it the thumbs up that she is all good etc. Then someone pops up and says that's my old car, I still have the shell for it that was rotton/smashed to peices...etc etc....
Would you think that's fine and give the same responses as you have here ?
What if you wrote off one of your own RS500's and no one knew about it, would you be happy to reshell it and still pass it on as a genuine RS500 ?
If someone called you now and told you that they knew and had prove that off of the RS500's on your registrar was not completely genuine, would you do anything about it/flag it up on the registrar ?
Dan
22-09-2009, 01:18 PM
#75
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Dont see the fuss with some of the replies this happens all the time..I re shelled my old rs2000 yrs ago i didnt use a nicked shell transfered all strengthening panels etc over no problem....Also The shell you have isnt a broadspeed shell its a capri 3 ltr shell with broadspeed parts fitted to it and these parts have been taken off a scrapper and put onto a nice shell i would only have a problem if the new shell was nicked
There are allot more triggers brooms out there than anyone realises
big deal...
There are allot more triggers brooms out there than anyone realises
big deal...
22-09-2009, 02:02 PM
#76
Advanced PassionFord User
Dont see the fuss with some of the replies this happens all the time..I re shelled my old rs2000 yrs ago i didnt use a nicked shell transfered all strengthening panels etc over no problem....Also The shell you have isnt a broadspeed shell its a capri 3 ltr shell with broadspeed parts fitted to it and these parts have been taken off a scrapper and put onto a nice shell i would only have a problem if the new shell was nicked
There are allot more triggers brooms out there than anyone realises big deal...
There are allot more triggers brooms out there than anyone realises
big deal...when you pay top money for a re-shell and then maybe can only sell it for half that,you may feel different.that it the main problem i see with unknown re-shelling.we all know that it has always gone on,but now with very high prices being payed for these rare cars,it's can have seroius consequences. aka log book cars!
22-09-2009, 03:47 PM
#77
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Just in case a ever sell mine, beware its been reshelled using a
new 3dr shell lol
Am happy with it as a no theres no rust and will still be rot free in years to come
new 3dr shell lol
Am happy with it as a no theres no rust and will still be rot free in years to come
22-09-2009, 03:50 PM
#78
............
22-09-2009, 05:04 PM
#80
I have to say that as someone who is the RS500 registrar I am genuinely surprised at your responses on this thread. I would have thought out of everyone you would want to see classic/rare cars in their original state have some harsh words if something was not right!
So let's fast forward 10 years and imagine an alleged genuine RS500 is for sale on ebay for £60K+. You even go and see said car and from your expert knowledge give it the thumbs up that she is all good etc. Then someone pops up and says that's my old car, I still have the shell for it that was rotton/smashed to peices...etc etc....
Would you think that's fine and give the same responses as you have here ?
What if you wrote off one of your own RS500's and no one knew about it, would you be happy to reshell it and still pass it on as a genuine RS500 ?
If someone called you now and told you that they knew and had prove that off of the RS500's on your registrar was not completely genuine, would you do anything about it/flag it up on the registrar ?
Dan
So let's fast forward 10 years and imagine an alleged genuine RS500 is for sale on ebay for £60K+. You even go and see said car and from your expert knowledge give it the thumbs up that she is all good etc. Then someone pops up and says that's my old car, I still have the shell for it that was rotton/smashed to peices...etc etc....
Would you think that's fine and give the same responses as you have here ?
What if you wrote off one of your own RS500's and no one knew about it, would you be happy to reshell it and still pass it on as a genuine RS500 ?
If someone called you now and told you that they knew and had prove that off of the RS500's on your registrar was not completely genuine, would you do anything about it/flag it up on the registrar ?
Dan
1, i would ask for proof that the shell they have is in fact the old shell from the 500
2, I would find out if the reshell was into a brand new shell , if yes then i dont see a problem at all and wouldnt devalue the 500 one penny
If the car was reshelled into a used shell then i would say its up to the owner of the 500 to see how he feels
Personaly i dont worry about reshelled cars if done into a brand new shell ,
I agree that into a used shell isnt perfect but if the car is improved from being reshelled into a legitimate used shell then the owny person who should worry is the owner
Many classic very high value cars have been reshelled over the years and as long as its a correct shell and the car is mint who cares
All i would do if i know of a car being reshelled is inform the potential buyer and let them decide
When we are talking about cars 30 years old etc who cares
Last edited by Mr RS500; 22-09-2009 at 05:05 PM.