Apparantly these wheel spacers are fine and safe?
01-07-2009, 10:40 PM
#5
yes, but not really unsafe is it?
just means you will have to replace the bearings often.
i ran 20mm spacers all round for over a year on a 2.0l sierra, people said they will kill the bearings ina few miles...
had no probs whatsoever.
just cos it looks fucking stupid, doesnt really make them unsafe!
just means you will have to replace the bearings often.
i ran 20mm spacers all round for over a year on a 2.0l sierra, people said they will kill the bearings ina few miles...
had no probs whatsoever.
just cos it looks fucking stupid, doesnt really make them unsafe!
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01-07-2009, 11:50 PM
#14
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Ok... here is a little experiment for you...
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
Last edited by MadMac; 01-07-2009 at 11:53 PM.
01-07-2009, 11:53 PM
#15
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Ok... here is a little experiment for you...
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect.
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect.
01-07-2009, 11:55 PM
#16
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True, but its not the bolts holding the lot together that you probably have to worry about, its going to be the hub and bearings that are taking the load.
02-07-2009, 06:44 AM
#17
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Ok... here is a little experiment for you...
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
how anyone can think it's safe after that great explanation, needs to hand their licence back to DVLA
02-07-2009, 06:48 AM
#18
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Ok... here is a little experiment for you...
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
To use your example - put a tree branch in a vice and hold the branch close to the vice, then push, and see if you can break it.
If you can, well done, you are complete numpty.
02-07-2009, 07:52 AM
#19
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I think the point trying to be made is (Certainly my point) as you have moved the wheel further out you have increased the leverage force of that wheel on its bearing. Try and undo a hubnut with a ordinary socket set and then try with a big arse handle. You increase the force at the nut dramatically for the same force applied at the handle.
02-07-2009, 08:05 AM
#20
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02-07-2009, 08:21 AM
#21
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Unsafe tbh, regardless of the strenth of bolts, flat faces.
Their are loads of explanations to compare to the branch.
Hold a broom horizontal with both hands 2-3ft apart, no close the hand so it's hand to hand. You will be adding 3x the pressure. Now that is just the pressure part for the bearings, now what if you were to hit a pot hole? That would shear the bolts.
Their are loads of explanations to compare to the branch.
Hold a broom horizontal with both hands 2-3ft apart, no close the hand so it's hand to hand. You will be adding 3x the pressure. Now that is just the pressure part for the bearings, now what if you were to hit a pot hole? That would shear the bolts.
02-07-2009, 08:42 AM
#22
I don't see why they're unsafe, if they're made correctly and the bolts are of the correct tensile strength. Sure they may 'seem' dangerous, but I've known loads of cars with spacers and I've never known any to fail. Has anyone here got an example of spacers actually failing?
Just the act of fitting larger diameter alloys can put increased stress on the hub and bearings.
Just the act of fitting larger diameter alloys can put increased stress on the hub and bearings.
02-07-2009, 08:52 AM
#23
I agree, proper hub centric spacers with correct bolts should not cause saftey issues. Only thing you could say is it will knock out the wheel bearings quick enough that they'd collapse and the wheel would part company.
But hopefully you'd know when the bearing gets that bad, and as stated never heard of anyone getting these problems to that degree.
But hopefully you'd know when the bearing gets that bad, and as stated never heard of anyone getting these problems to that degree.
02-07-2009, 09:34 AM
#24
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Not necessary.
And the tensile stregth of the bolts is unimportant in this case. The same strength bolts as already used will be more than capable. As there is almost no tensile stress on wheel bolts. Its all shear strength.
I do do this for a living
And the tensile stregth of the bolts is unimportant in this case. The same strength bolts as already used will be more than capable. As there is almost no tensile stress on wheel bolts. Its all shear strength.
I do do this for a living
02-07-2009, 06:08 PM
#25
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Wheel bolts do not work in that way though. Wheel bolts are there to stop shear, not bending.
To use your example - put a tree branch in a vice and hold the branch close to the vice, then push, and see if you can break it.
If you can, well done, you are complete numpty.
To use your example - put a tree branch in a vice and hold the branch close to the vice, then push, and see if you can break it.
If you can, well done, you are complete numpty.
I think the point trying to be made is (Certainly my point) as you have moved the wheel further out you have increased the leverage force of that wheel on its bearing. Try and undo a hubnut with a ordinary socket set and then try with a big arse handle. You increase the force at the nut dramatically for the same force applied at the handle.
Numpty.
02-07-2009, 06:48 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
Rims are ET0 and 10J if that's of any assistance.
Personally other than looking fucking shocking I would rather stick my genitals in a pirhana tank than fit those to a car I was going to be driving
Personally other than looking fucking shocking I would rather stick my genitals in a pirhana tank than fit those to a car I was going to be driving
02-07-2009, 07:12 PM
#30
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maybe I'm stupid or blind but the picture i see is of a large aluminium cylinder with a shiny bit sticking out the top which looks like a bearing housing, adjacent to a wicker basket and a plastic bottle
where is the wheel spacer
where is the wheel spacer
02-07-2009, 08:10 PM
#31
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02-07-2009, 08:14 PM
#32
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Ok... here is a little experiment for you...
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
02-07-2009, 08:25 PM
#34
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The ONLY problem a spacer like that will cause is bearing failure, its not the bolts, they will be fine.
The extra length of the spacer is like pulling down/pushing up on a crow bar and will act like one,longer crow bar less effort needed, but in this case it will cause greater force on the bearings,simple physics will show this as the fulcrum is in the same place, you have more of a lever.
Look at it how you want, the bearings will be under massive load,simple.
The extra length of the spacer is like pulling down/pushing up on a crow bar and will act like one,longer crow bar less effort needed, but in this case it will cause greater force on the bearings,simple physics will show this as the fulcrum is in the same place, you have more of a lever.
Look at it how you want, the bearings will be under massive load,simple.
Last edited by st3v3; 02-07-2009 at 08:27 PM.
02-07-2009, 09:54 PM
#36
Ok... here is a little experiment for you...
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
Get a long sturdy tree branch, jam on end into a vice or something that will prevent you moving it.
Now grab part of the branch closest to the vice and try and snap the branch. Now depending on how strong you are or arn't you may break it. But its probably going to be hard work doing so.
Now grab the end furthest away from the vice and try and break it. You should find holding the far end means its easier to break it.
Now imagine the vice is a wheel hub and bearing, the branch is a spacer and your hand is the wheel. By placing a spacer between the wheel and bearing you are creating the same effect. Your moving the wheel further away from the point where the load is transfered along the suspension. Ideally you want all support directly over or under the place where the load is applied not 140mm out to the side of it.
hang ona minute cunt lugs, that spacer is clearly made of aluminium, not a fucking tree!
bollocks will it snap anything, as i said it will possibly cause more load on the bearings, but its probably not as dangerous as all you people with no knowledge or experiance of such things think.
id imagine that the spacer was bolted to the hub, and the the wheel then bolts to the spacer.
as any said, the centre of the wheel may well be inline with the bearing, in which case absolutly NO extra load will be put on the bearings!
we need pics of the wheels to be used and the hubs i think, before all those without a clue can pass judgement lol
as i said, yes it LOOKS fucking silly, but it may well not be!
and even if it was, who on here actually has ANY experiance of a bearing failure with massive spacers?
no one, thats why all 3dr owners have shite offset
02-07-2009, 10:05 PM
#38
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friend of mine runs 60mm spacers on his 200sx 9.5'' rims not sure of the offset but its big and he drives it like he stole it lol hes into drifting in a big way hes never had any problems with them. 
02-07-2009, 10:10 PM
#40
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Oh I give up, I'm just trying to use a simple example to explain the extra leaverage force having such a stupid spacer will apply to the remaining wheel hub and suspension assembly I am not
i)Saying a spacer is a tree
ii)Trying to say the bolts will fail
Car suspension on most cars were not designed to rund spacers, especially ones of that size and car manufactures spend untold in development to get the most reliable and durable set ups. Sticking something like that on a car will fuck that and cause problems.
i)Saying a spacer is a tree
ii)Trying to say the bolts will fail
Car suspension on most cars were not designed to rund spacers, especially ones of that size and car manufactures spend untold in development to get the most reliable and durable set ups. Sticking something like that on a car will fuck that and cause problems.