been thinking about doing this for a while, and have just found an ideal part for the job.

here is the original donor engine with coil on each plug:



it has a 3 pin connector - presumably +, - and a trigger?



the length compared to a std cossie HT lead - slightly shorter, so would require machining of the cam cover to sit it down onto the plug properly, but that's no big deal (you can see that my cam cover is not mint by any stretch of the imagination)



it will even bolt down using one of the cam cover bolts:



looks factory fitted.



just got to find out the part number and price, how it works and work out how to use it.

does anyone know what i would need to do to a L8 ecu to run 4 of these? (presumably run 2 ignition amps, or a twin amp for wasted spark) will a std bosch ignition amp drive it correctly? whatever i do, will i be able to use the same mods with a SECS S8?

these are made by Denso by the way, if that helps.

i will try and measure the signal going to them on the original vehicle, but don't want to say what they are from yet (although you can guess it from the engine pic)

 

If you machine the cam cover down for it to fit, you wil have to remove that screw locator or it will hit on the angled section, and you can't machine that bit!

 

correct. it could be machined and rewelded if necessary, or i could just turn it 90 degrees and drill a new mounting hole and use a thread sealer when fitting a stud.

it will fit somehow.

 

im guessing thats from a s14 200sx?

 

you're guessing very wrong

 

Was thinking about doing this on mine, as i know many cars run them.

Just wondered if it would be beneficial.

 

good idea - if you turn it 90 will you be able to connect to it once its sunken.

 

to me it's beneficial to get rid of the HT leads completely. how much do they cost a set? also get rid of coil, king lead, rotor arm, dizzy caps. all need replacing periodically, and all are potential failure points. and i believe that it will give a stronger spark than convential std components (how it compres to a grp a coil , or coil pack i don't know)

 

I know there quite exensive, as once there in thats it, as there non-service items.

But there readily available second hand. From many many many cars over here.

 

yeah, i know they're now std fitment on most new cars. just didn't know how compatible they were with the length and what have you. just happened to have a car in the workshop with them on, so i thought i'd pull one out and see how it measured up.

if there's a more suitable one that anyone knows, please share your knowledge.

 

have you tried any from a 200sx as they are a dohc head so maybe might fit better than the ones you have (depth)?

although your look very close to being perfect.
I beleive they are also denso (although possibly calsonic) so should be the same to wire up as the ones you have.

 

well as you know skylines run them and quite a few mega high powered cossy's run them. So the benefits are there, its just a balance between cost and outcome

As you say the question is how are they triggered by the management. Surely it can be much different to running a 1 coil pack. As the principle is always the same.

 

Looks like VW or Audi to me??

 

tis nothing from the vag group. i wouldn't use stuff off one of them out of principle.

checked how they work, and it really is simple. they just need a 12V supply, and a 5V trigger.

 

Make sure they can take the heat as well, as I suspect the cossie rocker to be quite a bit hotter than that shopping trolley they came from

 

presumably the std bosch ignition amps give a 12V trigger to the coil?

 

I would fo thought some1 like simon from SECS could sort somethin out!

As he does somethin for coil packs already! so shouldnt be 2 much more work to get it to work for this!

Nice thinkin though! would b very good! I am currently going tro a coil pack setup on my engine!

 

good point phil

that shopping trolley is also produced in 200 bhp form, and although you might think that a cossie runs hotter cos of the turbo, i believe that the coolant temperature is actually lower than most nasp motors. i will slap a thermocouple on both and see what's what though.

 

I was looking into this a while ago, the only thing i didn't find out about was the coils that you have pictured

It depends if you want to run wasted spark or not, Simon @ SECS can supply a module that you wire into your loom, which gives you either 2 or 4 triggers (you have to specify what type you want, as he does 2 types). You then either need 2 / 4 std ignition amps or one dual / quad output bosch ignition amp:





Could you tell me what car the coils are from (or PM me, pretty please )

 

So its pretty straight forward then Wes?

Obviously if the coilpack plugs can take the heat?

 

cheers wes, i remember your post from a while back.

looking at those bosch drawings, they mention the on time of 3ms for a normal coil, and 1.8 ms for coil on plug. according to my measurement on the oscilloscope earlier, 1 division is 5ms, so these receive a pulse of nearer 3ms than 1.8ms. anyway, i guess that you use a low value if it works, and increase if necessary.

these coil on plugs were on a new shape (although not the recently facelifted) honda civic. just the basic 1.4 or 1.6 petrol engine.

i thought that the ignition amplifier gives a 12V output though?

 

Heat and vibration are the issues i'm concerned with, when they are on a nice and smooth honda civic engine with soft rubber engine mounts being driven around by miss daisy they will obviously work fine, stick them on a YB revving to 8k+ on basically solid engine mounts by someone with no mechanical sympathy and erm i don't know how well they would work tbh There must be a reason why Ford still used plug leads and fitted them to a remote mounted coil pack in the rally cars....


They are MoTec drawings Nick, I beleive the 1.8 and 3.0 ms parameteres are used in the ECU depending on what type of coil is fitted, i don't think the cossie weber stuff can be tailered to this, maybe simon could shed some light on this bit?

As far as i'm aware the std ignition amp doesn't give out any voltage to the coil**, 12v is supplied to the coil from the battery and the ignition amp completes the circuit by switching to earth when told to by the ecu, firing the coil.

** the ignition amp shares it's 12v supply to power it with the 12v supply to the coil.

I am tempted to go the coil pack route because it's realtively simple and been proven to work on quite a few cars.

 

good points wes, but i don't know that the type-r engine is any less of a hostile environent. and someone mentioned that some skylines and other turbocharged stuff have them. anyways, you could always mount them using a bush to protect them from vibration.

i've been on the motec website in their drawings section and had a look around.

i think that you're right about switching to earth hopefully my bro will read this and see me right, he knows everything.

only other factor is cost.

oh yeah, and these 2 mystery objects located in between the coils.

this is one in it's housing:



and this is one out.



it looks like a fuse link to me as most of the wires going to each one are the same colour. bt it seems a strange place to put something like that?

 

just called a honda dealer, and the 60 quid + vat each. part number 30520-PGK-A01

never going to be cheap new.

 

yeah as i thought, i think i read somewhere the VAG ones are Ł90 +TWAT each

Guess what im going tommorrow then

Busy tuesday morning for me down the breakers yard

 

the coilpack conversion is one of the best mods ive had done this year , well worth it , as for mutiple quad coils , tbh from the experiance ive had with these , they tend to be more trouble than there worth, i work in the vag and we have constant probs with these on turbo and non turbo, as for L8 , i can help you there, on P8 yes it will run a dual coil no problem

 

Will the provide enough output for a turbocharged high boost car? I know the ignition system has to be up to scratch on big boost or you will be missfiring, i'm guessing a Civic has less voltage requirements than a 300+ bhp Cosworth. It's worth checking out what power they put out!

 

Haven't a clue what those boxes do, maybe some form of electro magnetic interference protection ??? Or perhaps they are the ignition amps ???

 

Right L8 & Coilpack it is for me then.

Mark, can you PM me what coilpack i need? Along with what other parts i need, i.e 2 Ignition Amps etc etc

Cheers

Ryan

 

Coil on plug is used on GTRs, even 1000bhp+ ones.

Tho i dont trust mine as they like 14years old now so looking to do somthing different before engines running.

Whats with the wierd guesses like S14 200SX, can tell its a single cam engine from the pics, and i could tell its a Honda as im amazing Ok, cause i used to work for em

 

and cos the little sticker in the second pic says honda lol

thats what i thought anyway before he said lol

 

the big clue that it's a honda is that the engine is the other way around to other inferior fwd cars

a coil on plug of any description will probably give a stronger spark than a distributor based system. if they're good enough for skyline std fit, they're good enough for me.

and i have heard about the problems that VAG have been having with theirs, but i think that they're from a different manufacturer. VAG stuff is way worse quality than anything jap anyway, and honda in particular tend to fit what is technically the best rather than what is the cheapest.

 

you taking the piss?
wes has basically said it already.
what i would do if you insist on 4 coils is use the 201 module wired as in the lower of the 2 diagrams for that module. along with a secs module that goes on a L8 to convert to wasted spark (2 amp).
the reason you wanna do it that way (rather than the 4 amp s.e.c.s. adaptor if he does them) is so when you go to s8 (which currrently only have 2 ignition outputs) the wiring will be same.
Personally i'm sticking with coil pack and this module

for a few reasons
1. easier to access spark plugs/ regap etc (although your way wouldn't take much longer)
2. i didn't want to mod my brand new camcover
3. got the leads made from normal cossie leads to which i attached fiesta coilpack lead ends.
p.s. sort that manky camcover out you pikey

 

when did you get this bosch item "the orginal"

direct from bosch? or what car is it off.

As i want to run a coilpack on l8

cheers

 

i got it off top man BOSCH MAN you probably haven't heard of him, he keeps himself to himself

 

oh him

what coilpack did you use?

 

fiesta zetec they're all similar mondeo etc

 

does it have to be from a 2.0ltr model? or can i get it from an XR2i or something?

Sorry for all the questions im just keen to crack on with it.

So i need 1 of those ignition amps from our favourite friend (Any idea on price)
Coilpack
Modification to ECU.
Coil pack speak plug lead ends

Anything else?

 

that's it. no any model engine.
Pm him for price, but a second cossie amp would be a cheaper way
only other thing i can think of is wiring, get the plug for the coilpack with as much wire attached while you're at the scrappy

 

Top job, i got a set of XR2 leads and a coilpack i can lay my hands on, so all i need now is some wiring.

Wahoooooooooooooo

2 Cossy Ignition amps it is then