best under 10k performance car
19-04-2009, 01:01 AM
#43
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Before mine had the cams done I had 132bhp and a 325Ci (coupe not compact) couldn't shake my 1.8 focus off no matter how hard he tried. If you are running a genuine 360bhp by the time you pull through first and second you should be leaving 10-15 car lengths!
19-04-2009, 01:44 AM
#44
Are u sure this isn't a wind up chaps? Really, a standard cossie should be as fast atleast as a 325 bmw, especially considering the bmw will be heavier.
I would expect my e46 m3 to be beaten by a proper 350bhp cossie until we get right up to high speeds, potentially 150+ where the m3 is in its own territory. For a start the kerb weight of the m3 is much heavier too.
RW
I would expect my e46 m3 to be beaten by a proper 350bhp cossie until we get right up to high speeds, potentially 150+ where the m3 is in its own territory. For a start the kerb weight of the m3 is much heavier too.
RW
19-04-2009, 02:19 AM
#45
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Last edited by cossieDavedree; 19-04-2009 at 02:21 AM.
19-04-2009, 10:24 AM
#47
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"Motor" road test 13/2/88
0-60 5.9
0-100 15.7
Max 142mph ( banked circuit )
"Performance Car" April 88
0-60 5.8
0-100 15.4
Max 144mph
"What Car" April 88
0-60 5.8
0-100 16.2
Max 143mph
"Autocar" 17/2/88
0-60 5.8
0-100 15.8
Max 143mph
Autocar test of an E36 325i 29/4/92
0-60 7.2
0-100 19.2
Max 144
The trouble with the BM is that is down on power and weighs about 150kg more than the standard 2wd Sapphire.
If you think the std Sapphire 2wd is slow with 200bhp then don't try a std E30 M3 with 200bhp
.......the E30 M3 ALWAYS got beaten round a track like for like in comparison tests of the time....AND in any acceleration test to 100. The Ford had better brakes and more torque.BmW E30 M3 road test 15/04/87 (200bhp)
0-60 7.1
0-100 19.0
Max 140 mph
The Sapphire is AS FAST AS any other 1220kg rwd car with 200bhp IF it is running well.
The problem will be that if you think a standard one is slow for its power it will be out of tune, poorly maintained, lowered too much so it has poor traction off the line, running budget tyres or some other reason
People are used to 250bhp hot hatches nowadays or 400bhp saloons that all have more mechanical grip, more sophisticated suspension set-ups, 290bhp turbo diesels, lower lag turbos or 5 litre V8s under the bonnet so 200bhp might feel slow in comparison
19-04-2009, 10:29 AM
#48
saffy cossie yes
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hi its done 84.000miles got mahle low comp 8.0.1cr pistons,arp stud kit ,4 1000cc siemens injectors, lightend crank and flywheel , port polish,level 8ecu a chip ,group a gasket , 31 actuator and it looks like a t38 but i cant find the reciept for the turbo ......the work was carried out by carwise uk ........i think i have made the mistake of jumping in at the first one i see once i had the money ....thanks for your replys and help fellers regards matt
Last edited by trevorcossie; 19-04-2009 at 10:32 AM.
19-04-2009, 11:32 AM
#52
hi its done 84.000miles got mahle low comp 8.0.1cr pistons,arp stud kit ,4 1000cc siemens injectors, lightend crank and flywheel , port polish,level 8ecu a chip ,group a gasket , 31 actuator and it looks like a t38 but i cant find the reciept for the turbo ......the work was carried out by carwise uk ........i think i have made the mistake of jumping in at the first one i see once i had the money ....thanks for your replys and help fellers regards matt
1000cc injectors? surely overkill in a big way for the power?
mahle low comp @ 8.0:1? thats standard cr for a cossie?
i' have thought with spec well set up and running well it should see more than the 360bhp you're quoting anyway and there's no way in hell it'd be getting beaten by much never mind a 325!
19-04-2009, 11:49 AM
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19-04-2009, 11:57 AM
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A standard 2wd Cosworth Sapphire from the road test of the time when they were new and running as per factory
"Motor" road test 13/2/88
0-60 5.9
0-100 15.7
Max 142mph ( banked circuit )
"Performance Car" April 88
0-60 5.8
0-100 15.4
Max 144mph
"What Car" April 88
0-60 5.8
0-100 16.2
Max 143mph
"Autocar" 17/2/88
0-60 5.8
0-100 15.8
Max 143mph
Autocar test of an E36 325i 29/4/92
0-60 7.2
0-100 19.2
Max 144
The trouble with the BM is that is down on power and weighs about 150kg more than the standard 2wd Sapphire.
If you think the std Sapphire 2wd is slow with 200bhp then don't try a std E30 M3 with 200bhp .......the E30 M3 ALWAYS got beaten round a track like for like in comparison tests of the time....AND in any acceleration test to 100. The Ford had better brakes and more torque.
BmW E30 M3 road test 15/04/87 (200bhp)
0-60 7.1
0-100 19.0
Max 140 mph
The Sapphire is AS FAST AS any other 1220kg rwd car with 200bhp IF it is running well.
The problem will be that if you think a standard one is slow for its power it will be out of tune, poorly maintained, lowered too much so it has poor traction off the line, running budget tyres or some other reason
People are used to 250bhp hot hatches nowadays or 400bhp saloons that all have more mechanical grip, more sophisticated suspension set-ups, 290bhp turbo diesels, lower lag turbos or 5 litre V8s under the bonnet so 200bhp might feel slow in comparison
"Motor" road test 13/2/88
0-60 5.9
0-100 15.7
Max 142mph ( banked circuit )
"Performance Car" April 88
0-60 5.8
0-100 15.4
Max 144mph
"What Car" April 88
0-60 5.8
0-100 16.2
Max 143mph
"Autocar" 17/2/88
0-60 5.8
0-100 15.8
Max 143mph
Autocar test of an E36 325i 29/4/92
0-60 7.2
0-100 19.2
Max 144
The trouble with the BM is that is down on power and weighs about 150kg more than the standard 2wd Sapphire.
If you think the std Sapphire 2wd is slow with 200bhp then don't try a std E30 M3 with 200bhp
.......the E30 M3 ALWAYS got beaten round a track like for like in comparison tests of the time....AND in any acceleration test to 100. The Ford had better brakes and more torque.BmW E30 M3 road test 15/04/87 (200bhp)
0-60 7.1
0-100 19.0
Max 140 mph
The Sapphire is AS FAST AS any other 1220kg rwd car with 200bhp IF it is running well.
The problem will be that if you think a standard one is slow for its power it will be out of tune, poorly maintained, lowered too much so it has poor traction off the line, running budget tyres or some other reason
People are used to 250bhp hot hatches nowadays or 400bhp saloons that all have more mechanical grip, more sophisticated suspension set-ups, 290bhp turbo diesels, lower lag turbos or 5 litre V8s under the bonnet so 200bhp might feel slow in comparison
a 204bhp sapph is very slow like it or not, so is bmw 325 and it would prob come down to a drivers race simple as!
19-04-2009, 12:41 PM
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This has got to be a wind-up. I have driven a 330bhp 4wd Saph, and it was a quick car on the road. In a totally different league to a 325 compact .
There must be something seriously wrong with yours.
.There must be something seriously wrong with yours.
19-04-2009, 01:35 PM
#64
PassionFord Post Troll
When you say they are slow, what 200bhp 1220kg car are you comparing them to?
Realistically, how many cars capable of better than 60 in 5.8/5.9 seconds do you see on the roads round you with only 200bhp?
Yes they are slow compared to 300/400bhp saloons......
Other 200bhp rwd saloons of roughly the same weight/era.....E30 M3, Merc 190 2.5-16........acceleration wise they are both slower.
Your argument doesn't hold water.
19-04-2009, 02:26 PM
#65
19-04-2009, 03:54 PM
#67
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Ok then - put a standard Sapphire Cosworth running 200bhp weighing 1220 kg up against a Clio 197 weighing only a little more and have a blast up to 100mph. I bet the Sierra won't come last
When you say they are slow, what 200bhp 1220kg car are you comparing them to?
Realistically, how many cars capable of better than 60 in 5.8/5.9 seconds do you see on the roads round you with only 200bhp?
Yes they are slow compared to 300/400bhp saloons......
Other 200bhp rwd saloons of roughly the same weight/era.....E30 M3, Merc 190 2.5-16........acceleration wise they are both slower.
Your argument doesn't hold water.
When you say they are slow, what 200bhp 1220kg car are you comparing them to?
Realistically, how many cars capable of better than 60 in 5.8/5.9 seconds do you see on the roads round you with only 200bhp?
Yes they are slow compared to 300/400bhp saloons......
Other 200bhp rwd saloons of roughly the same weight/era.....E30 M3, Merc 190 2.5-16........acceleration wise they are both slower.
Your argument doesn't hold water.
sapph 0-60 sub 6sec what??? 0-60 6.1 last time i checked, there are loads of standard 200bhp and less cars around that do 0-60 in around 6sec, the jap's have been doing it for years!
i think you need to stop being a fan boy so much
19-04-2009, 05:33 PM
#68
do you have proof that a standand sapph would beat standard 197 clio to 100? again would come down to the driver
sapph 0-60 sub 6sec what??? 0-60 6.1 last time i checked, there are loads of standard 200bhp and less cars around that do 0-60 in around 6sec, the jap's have been doing it for years!
i think you need to stop being a fan boy so much
sapph 0-60 sub 6sec what??? 0-60 6.1 last time i checked, there are loads of standard 200bhp and less cars around that do 0-60 in around 6sec, the jap's have been doing it for years!
i think you need to stop being a fan boy so much
jap 200bhp cars that pull 0-60 faster than a cossie will generally weigh less, simple as that. modern cars with 200bhp will generally run faster 0-60 as they are geared better but they've run out of puff by the time they hit a ton.
just find it annoying the amount of idiots with nothing better to do than register on forums to do nothing other than slag the cars off. it's not just here either.
19-04-2009, 06:06 PM
#69
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have you registered just to be a cock on here or is it general life?
jap 200bhp cars that pull 0-60 faster than a cossie will generally weigh less, simple as that. modern cars with 200bhp will generally run faster 0-60 as they are geared better but they've run out of puff by the time they hit a ton.
just find it annoying the amount of idiots with nothing better to do than register on forums to do nothing other than slag the cars off. it's not just here either.
jap 200bhp cars that pull 0-60 faster than a cossie will generally weigh less, simple as that. modern cars with 200bhp will generally run faster 0-60 as they are geared better but they've run out of puff by the time they hit a ton.
just find it annoying the amount of idiots with nothing better to do than register on forums to do nothing other than slag the cars off. it's not just here either.
also if you think that the sapph will quicker from 100 -140 then you need to take the blinkers off (as they will be just as slow as one another)
if you think i'm idiot that really shows how narrow minded you are!
19-04-2009, 06:09 PM
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19-04-2009, 06:39 PM
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19-04-2009, 06:46 PM
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What you class as a 'fast' car is a matter of opinion, and it's not daft to think of a standard escos as being quick. For a start it's quicker than all of the regular family cars that are on the road - so that's it quicker than the majority already.
19-04-2009, 07:01 PM
#74
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"quick" yes back in the day (but quick is never "fast"), but some people who own them think they have a LS2 or something under the bonnet and make them out to be something they are not, yes it is quicker than alot/most family cars, but remeber this was a car meant for rallying was it not!
19-04-2009, 07:11 PM
#75
what exactly do you drive anyway? not sure how you can call me narrow minded? i'm not a rs purest, i've got 4 cars and only 1 is a rs and a ford for that matter. you are talking shit yourself now cos it clearly said about the weight of the cossie when this all started out and now you're quoting cars weighing much less with gearing set up for better acceleration.
i'll bet that 99% of drivers on the roads today couldn't even find the difference between 5.7 seconds or 6.1 seconds?!
not really even seeing how some lad saying he got beat by a slower car and thus the conclusion his car has issues ended up in you coming on here spouting about shit cars that will be long forgotten being so much better than anything with a ford badge on.
i'll bet that 99% of drivers on the roads today couldn't even find the difference between 5.7 seconds or 6.1 seconds?!
not really even seeing how some lad saying he got beat by a slower car and thus the conclusion his car has issues ended up in you coming on here spouting about shit cars that will be long forgotten being so much better than anything with a ford badge on.
19-04-2009, 07:26 PM
#76
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"quick" yes back in the day (but quick is never "fast"), but some people who own them think they have a LS2 or something under the bonnet and make them out to be something they are not, yes it is quicker than alot/most family cars, but remeber this was a car meant for rallying was it not!
They are still a performance car, and what many would think of as 'fast', hence the high insurance premiums.
19-04-2009, 07:37 PM
#77
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what exactly do you drive anyway? not sure how you can call me narrow minded? i'm not a rs purest, i've got 4 cars and only 1 is a rs and a ford for that matter. you are talking shit yourself now cos it clearly said about the weight of the cossie when this all started out and now you're quoting cars weighing much less with gearing set up for better acceleration.
i have at the mo 280bhp celica gen7 supercharged and yes it's slow! also escort mk3 cabby turbo (restoring)
Realistically, how many cars capable of better than 60 in 5.8/5.9 seconds do you see on the roads round you with only 200bhp?
if you read the question he asked for cars around 200hp mark with better performance than a sapph and i gave the answers, didn't mention anything about weight or gearing you just made that crap up
i'll bet that 99% of drivers on the roads today couldn't even find the difference between 5.7 seconds or 6.1 seconds?!
yes i would agree with you their, it would all be down to the driver
not really even seeing how some lad saying he got beat by a slower car and thus the conclusion his car has issues ended up in you coming on here spouting about shit cars that will be long forgotten being so much better than anything with a ford badge on.
i have at the mo 280bhp celica gen7 supercharged and yes it's slow! also escort mk3 cabby turbo (restoring)
Realistically, how many cars capable of better than 60 in 5.8/5.9 seconds do you see on the roads round you with only 200bhp?
if you read the question he asked for cars around 200hp mark with better performance than a sapph and i gave the answers, didn't mention anything about weight or gearing you just made that crap up
i'll bet that 99% of drivers on the roads today couldn't even find the difference between 5.7 seconds or 6.1 seconds?!
yes i would agree with you their, it would all be down to the driver
not really even seeing how some lad saying he got beat by a slower car and thus the conclusion his car has issues ended up in you coming on here spouting about shit cars that will be long forgotten being so much better than anything with a ford badge on.
does this have to do with anything performance wise
19-04-2009, 07:52 PM
#78
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yes so do many other cars fall into the high insurance bracket(s), doesn't mean they are necessarily fast
19-04-2009, 07:52 PM
#79
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do you have proof that a standand sapph would beat standard 197 clio to 100? again would come down to the driver
sapph 0-60 sub 6sec what??? 0-60 6.1 last time i checked, there are loads of standard 200bhp and less cars around that do 0-60 in around 6sec, the jap's have been doing it for years!
i think you need to stop being a fan boy so much
sapph 0-60 sub 6sec what??? 0-60 6.1 last time i checked, there are loads of standard 200bhp and less cars around that do 0-60 in around 6sec, the jap's have been doing it for years!
i think you need to stop being a fan boy so much
....maybe not....They came out of mags who tested the cars when new with Correvit/Datron timing gear.
I'll respect the 1/4 mile times they obtained in the absence of having an example of each
Autocars figures for the Sapphire Cosworth were 0-100 in 15.8 and 143mph.
Same mags figures for the Clio 197 were 0-100 in 18.7 and 132mph.
They both weigh roughly the same according to the test figures
I would suggest that the Ford is fast for a 200bhp 1220kg car.
If you don't think that a 20 year old Sapphire Cosworth that can run to 60 in 5.8 seconds and onto 100 in 10 more is fast these days, have a look at 50 modern cars with that power and weight and see how it compares. Of course if you drive around in a new M3 with double the power (414bhp ) and only a third as much weight again as the Sapphire it will be much faster, especially at higher speeds..........but I still think 60 in less than 6 seconds is pretty quick .......even these days.
As for being a Ford fanboy, well, yes I am on here of course but I'm not totally blinkered and have had other makes of "fast" cars.
19-04-2009, 07:54 PM
#80
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You wouldn't be the first person to buy a cossie with a 'genuine 365bhp' and find it ain't anywhere near that. Get it set up and rolling roaded again.
Last edited by Jimboxr4x4; 19-04-2009 at 07:59 PM.