Spiky

iTrader: (1)

ok,

this area is a little grey to me, so can someone explain it for me.

basically my car will be on TB's running off a DTA ecu which can run close loop off a lambda sensor

so what do i need to get?

pa_sjo

A narrow band sensor is designed to read "richer than" or "leaner than" stoichiometric (lambda 1.0, 14.7:1 AFR on gasoline).. Trying to get an accurate 'wide band' (eg, linear) response from one is highly unlikely.

A narrow band sensor is what is used on all cars since 1992 (with the exception of some running bosch lsu4 pseudo-wideband sensors) to do closed-loop fuelling. You can use it for this too of course, as long as you only want your closed-loop to give you lambda 1.0! Otherwise you'll need a proper wideband kit.. as long as your ecu supports this.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

my ecu manual says this

Quote:

Lambda control functions

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

so the lambda sensor that i currentlt run is no good then?

pa_sjo

You didn't say what you currently run? But if it's a narrow-band sensor, then it'll only be good for lambda 1.0 closed-loop.

If you want to make use of the lambda target function you detail above, then you'll need a wide band of sorts. Price ranges from about Ł150-800.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

sorry, it's just a std 4 wire lambda that the gti6 ecu reads, i assume this is narrow.

ok to add to the question

if i want close loop and buy a wide band

can i use the same sensor to plug it into a gauge to show my AFR?

pa_sjo

Yes

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

thank you very much for the responses

Ginge !

but if the ecu is a 4 wire plug then its only a narrow band as most vehicles are at the moment apart from the latest motors or the old 1.5 vtec honda civic that used a NGK wideband

you cant just put any lambda sensor on it, they voltages need to be correct for the ecu or it wont read proper,, thats why universal lambda sensors dont work that well on all cars

alot of newer cars are using wideband sensors though due to the getting ever stricter emissions laws

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

congratulations on NOT reading the thread details

I "currently" have and "will be" are two totally different things

pa_sjo

I doubt the sensor itself plugs straight into the ECU.. there will most likely be a single pin for a 0-5v signal from the sensor control box..

Chip

iTrader: (3)

A narrow band will be be fine for motorway cruising.

I wouldnt worry too much about using a wideband one with the target AFR table on DTA, as it doesnt seem to work very well anyway, id sooner trust a decent mapper than a bad algorythm personally, so just get it mapped for the right AFR's in the first place.

Ginge !

i read it, you asked about using a wide band lambda on your dta,,, or hen use the one from your existing ecu aswell,,, both i doubt would be possible due to most aftermarket ecu's being quite basic with there closed loop control

vauxhall corsa B 1.2 8V uses a single wire lamda sensor, some use 3 wires, some use 4, not all of them give the same reading back to the ecu as it would read aswell

as chip mentioned as its generally a almost cude system then getting it mapped proper is the best alternative than rely on the ecu to correct the settings to make the perfect afr for the ecu, closed loop is great for what it does but most aftermarkets dont perform that well from what ive been told as most aftermarket ecu's are behind technology compared to current OEM ecu's fitted to cars

if you seen what denso and bosch are working on for the future as they have to work years in advance for the latest new car regs that come out every few years its then you discover just how basic ecu's in the aftermarket are and just how good the OEM stuff is and never really used to its fullest potential

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ginge, to the best of my knowledge you are totally wrong.

1 wire, 2 wire, 3 wire, 4 wire

ALL give the same signal in every instance Ive seen and the signal wire from any of these should work fine for basic closed loop control.

Its a 0.45 output at 14.7 AFR, and above or below that simply means "rich" or "lean"

I dont know of ANY narrowband sensor that doesnt work that way.

Can you please give a specific example of one which doesnt if you arent just chatting absolute shit about something you know nothing about?

Ginge !

chip this is what ive been told hence theres more than 4 universal lambda sensors sold and also why universals dont tend to work on all cars as well as they are ment to and alot of garages tend to stay away from them due to the hassle of redoing a job twice

can you explain why they dont make just a universal lambda sensor with the same thread pitch for all applications then,,,,,, as you seem to think im chatting shit,,,, how many different lambda sensors you think bosch/ngk/denso have listed then ??

why cant you get a bosch lambda sensor for a ford focus on the diagnostic side apart from universal and ONLY available in NGK which is OEM aswell if they all do the same job ? its not just the plug fittings im talking about either as they is a bosch with the same plug and thread pitch but the ecu still reads a error code

Ginge !

i could go on further with other cars that use 4 lambda sensors,, they aint all the same either, surely its cheeper for production to make one lambda sensor for all the car range for a manufacterer and use the same plug,,, just like most crank sensors are used for a entire range of cars,,, it they all gave the same signal why not use the one lambda sensor ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ginge, you seem to have not answered my question. Which one has a different signal output that means spikey cant use it?

There are different lambda sensors available because some run a heater element in them, and standard car ecu's will only work with the type they have been designed to work with as if they dont see the correct resistance from the heater element they will assume the sensor is faulty.

Spikey has an aftermarket ecu that he can use with any of them as the signal itself is the same on all of them.

So please stop confusing the lad with a load of rubbish that you dont understand the first thing about.

Ginge !

so you can use ANY lambda sensor on a aftermarket ecu ?

thats something i NEVER knew but what i am saying is what i was told about when doing a course on lambda sensors,, i dont claim to know everything, i OBV dont but i do have a bit of experience with lambda sensors and issues and dealing with problems to discover they aint all the same and one fits all

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes he can use any narrow band sensor on his ecu as far as im aware.
He might want to wire up a basic heater circuit to bring it up to temp quicker if he uses a 4 wire or whatever though as thats how they are designed to be used so probably take longer to get up to temp without the heater, but the signal should be the same once up to temp as far as im aware.

Ginge !

chip i didnt even think about the heater resistance for the faulty sensor tbh, i just assumed then all heated up to the same temp, remember im only going based on what bosch and denso mention,,, but then i also went to a factory who lied to me about my former employers exhausts not being able to pass R103 when in comes into force,,, when it turns out they are made in the same factory in italy where they HAVE to comply already so its possible that they skim past stuff too and not get too tied up in the truth of it

heat resistance is a huge part on cars electrics i know that and its how it detects wear which DOES make sence to a point for errors but still leave questions too when you see the range of lambda sensors available

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ginge, you have some questions, spikey would like some answers instead.
You have nothing of value to bring to this thread except your silence

Ginge !

that was what i was answering, plus mentioning why but obv off topic with it

foreigneRS

you're not quite right afaik chip - there are two types of narrow band that are not compatible - zirconia is the normal type (where you are correct that essentially they are all the same single wire but with additional wires for earth and heater and many different part numbers sold as they either have a universal connector, OEM specific connector or no connector at all), but there are some titania ones that output 0 - 5V

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Fair enough Nick, not personally come across a 5v one, im sure that will still be fine for Spikey though even if he does have that instead as he'll be able to set the ECU to use that too.
Dont forget the voltage is dictated by the ecu not the sensor though, so I think you may have the wrong end of the stick.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

and i thought it was a simple question...lol


cheers again for the info

foreigneRS

http://www.lambdasensor.com/main/mtypes.htm