im getting royally fucked off with our boiler now.

about 2 years ago i had to remove the radiator from the lounge, and fit a new valve thing. anyway got it all back together and bled the system.

but the boiler more often that not, bangs like a right cunt when the heating kicks in.

its not a combi boiler, it heat the water up for the heating and taps, and when it runs out we have to use the emersion, or turn the heating back on etc.

now, for last, i guess year i have been trying to bleed the rad in the bath room every day, as thats the only one that has some air come out.

all rads get hot, the top floor first, then the bottom eventually get hot.

at the mo all rads are on max i came to the conclusion that having them all open would allow the air in the system to pass easier...

in the airing cupbourd where the emersion is, there is a valve that says heating/hot water on it, i did have this in the middle but now the lever is on the left for heating (water still gets hot tho, but the rads dont if its on hot water only)

on the pump in the boiler there is a black box with a rotational switch with posistions 1, 2, 3. its on 3, as i did put it to 2 but when the heating came on this mornring it was banging like a cunt for a good half hour, so i put it back on 3 and its ok now..?

what is this switch for? pump run time?

going back to the airing cupboard, there is a pipe that comes from downstairs and goes into the loft with a T that goes to the top of the boiler - this is the pipe that all the noise is coming from. at the T its fucking red hot, but about 10" up its stone cold - i assume this is the overflow back to the tank in the loft?

does anyone have any ideas as to what the fook is going on, or anyone in swindon got an hour spare and wants to earn themselves some beer tokens and fancys having a look?

cheers for any advice.

Dan

 

ps its a servowarm elite 30 boiler.


elite my fookin arse!

 

1,2,3 is pump speed, low, medium, high.

When you change from 1 to 2 to 3 you should feel / hear the pump speed up.

The valve in the cupboard heating, water should respond to the programmer.
Put the programmer to heating the valve moves to heating.
Programmer to water it moves to water.
Heating and Water it moves to the middle to share the output from the boiler to both heating and hot water.

Did the problem only start after you took the radiator out?

Check in the the small expansion tank that feeds the boiler, has it got water in? The ball valve might be stuck closed and not allowing water in to refill after you drained out for the rad.

.

 

Did the banging noise start after you removed and refitted the rad and did you fit a (TRV) Thermostatic radiator valve at the same time?

If yes: it could be the TRV banging if its a non duel direction flow valve,

Try removing the TRV head and see if the banging stops,

But check what Focusv8 said about water in the header tank first.

 

cheers guys.

basically yes, as far as i can rememeber its only after the rad was removed.

the valve i replaced was the side that just shuts off the water supply, the thermostat valve is on the right hand side and not touched.

i couldnt shut the valve off as it was fucked, so had to get a hose pipe on it and drained all the water out the window...

then looked at how to shut the water off etc.

im guessing that the water has refilled in the tank, as i must have drained it, or would that water have come from the emesion heater as the hot water must be stored in it?

or is that different for radiators?

as for the valve in the airing cupboard, its a manual jobby, the boiler is either on or off. at the mo the lever is on heating, if i move it accross to hot water you can hear water running in the pipes, like if there is air etc.

ill get up in the loft later and have a look at the tank, see if its filling etc.

thanks lads, appreciate it

 

also, witht he pump speed it only bangs for a short time on 3, but on 1 or 2 the heating keeps cutting in and out, and every time it comes on, it bangs its tits off.

so i guess i leave that on 3 lol

 

Never rely on guessing

No it won't have, it's a separate tank for the boiler, the small one.

Or NO WATER

.

 

im on it.

cheers bud

 

right, been up in the loft. the small tank next to the big one smells the same as the water that comes out the rads, so i guess its the right one lol

anyway, its about half full, and the ballcock works ok.

i belive the pipe that connects to the tank and goes to the emersion/down somewhere else is the one that the bangign noises are coming from (tested last night with a biro tube in my ear against all the pipes lol)

as i said earlier the pipe is red hot upto where it T's off to go to the emersion, and cold a few inches further up which would make sense as the water in the tank is cold obviously.

i dont know what other options there are now. turned the heating back on just now and its been ok, no noises etc.

could this pipe still be blocked somewhere tho? as i have been bleeding it on and off for about a year, so if it was, then surely id have run out water to bleed by now??

i dont know what else to try

 

oh and all taps etc i could find were open

 

sounds like a blocked cold feed?

Dan run the drain or some water out a rad and check the ball cock runs in the header tank to re fill the system, if it doesnt the feed pipe from this tank into the system is blocked and not re filing the system.

If this is the case your system doesnt have enough water in it and thats whats causing all your troubles.

When you bleed the rads you do actually get air out yeah?>

 

(( the pipe is red hot upto where it T's off to go to the emersion, and cold a few inches further up )) QUOTE

JUST CHECK THAT THE PIPE GOSE UP HILL WITH A SPIRIT LEVEL AS I HAD A SIMLER THING ON A HOUSE I DID SOME WORK ON . AND THE PIPE YOUR ON ABOUT HAD A AIR LOCK IN IT SO BENT THE PIPE A BIT AND THE AIR SHOT OUT AND ALL WAS WELL

 

could be the pump fucked and the boilers hitting high limit (hence the loud banging) take the screw out the middle of the pump and stick a small screwdriver in to see if the impeller is spinning

pete

 

The boiler is coming up to max temperature and shutting off....this is what is causing the pipe to get red hot for a few inches off the boiler......

There is a big airlock in the system somewhere.........

What you need to do is drain the heating system down.......then refill it with a cleaning agent...... leave it in there for a few hours and get the system up to temp....then drain out and put an inhibitor in it, this will keep the system airfree.

 

I have a similair problem when i drained my whole system down.

The main problem i has was that the pipes from the boiler come in between the first and second floor and then drop down to the lower radiators and the pump on the boiler wasnt able to pump enough water down and the air back up.

I rang a plumber friend and he said to turn off all the rads and the turn one on at a time until it is bleed and hot and if that didnt work do take one rad off downstairs and get some water flow out a hose outside to get rid of the airlock.

 

Euan, i will try this in a bit then, the lowest drain i can find is in the kitchen so should be ok for that.

as for getting air out, yes it does about the same ammount each time, usually after 2 days it will get some air out.

 

the pipe in question is verticle, goes up the wall into the loft. so that should be ok

 

tiff, the pipe i was on about that gets red hot is up in the airing cupboard. but the ones on the boiler itself are fooking hot too lol

if i were to drain it, is that ALL the water until it stops coming out? and shut of the water supply into the tank?

a mate suggested draining it a bit and putting an inhibitor in it, but where can i get a cleaning agent? screwfix etc?

 

pete, could be the pump i guess.

but it works ok on speed 3, the fastest, but when on 1 or 2 its banging.

i have tried unscrewing the screw on the pump, but its on the top, and very little room to get in there.

ps i should have said it only does it on initial fire up, once its been going a few mins its usually ok.

 

it shouldnt really do it at all on any speed mate, its a case of trial and error mate
theres a lad on here that had the same prob whos in a rented house told him to tell the plumber to swap the pump and it solved it!

the screw is a big flat headed 1 on the face of the pump

does the boiler cut out after a couple of mins????? and ya have to relight it???????

pete

 

well they should be pretty silent when working correctly shouldnt they?

anyway, i have cracked the screw, its about an inch in diameter, and some water came out, no air tho. ive not taken it right out, as im not sure if i can. its on the top of the pump, right under the gas pipe/rest of the boiler etc, so would be a right pain in the ass im guessing.

also would i need to shut the water off as it will all piss out wont it?

the heating is on at the mo so its a bit hot to look now, its been fine all day, just does it in the mornings usually.

as for cutting out, if the pump is on less than 3 it will run for about a min, then it sounds like the stat clicks off and the the gas returns to the pilot. then will switch back on, then off etc. it looks like it wont stay on tho.

we have a guy coming round tomoz after work, hes a british gas engineer, so may give some more advice.

i know diagnosing faults over the net is not ideal, but thanks for the input

gives me a few things to look at anyway

 

ya can take it out while its runnung ya get a bit of water coming out but i usually stick a towel under it

if ya got a chap coming out leave it to him it sounds to me like the pump as it should be ok on any speed but like i say without being there its hard to diagnose

let us know how ya get on

pete

 

will do mate.

the pump must be working to some degree tho, as you can hear it pumping water/air through, as when its not banging, you hear a kind of gushing noise that sounds like trapped air

 

sounds like the systems half empty, if you vent an upstairs rad[with the system switched off] do you get water out ok?

 

i think water would come out ok when the system was cold. i cant remember tho lol

righto, the BG engineer came round earlier, hes a fried of the family and gave me a bottle of salamander fast cleanse.

although i may have fucked up using it

i basically drained the system via the lowest point i could find, was on a pipe for the kitchen rad.

now, i bled it until water pretty much stopped coming out the hosepipe and slung the bottole of stuff in the tank in the loft. then read its supposed to go directly into the fooking inlet pipe

i have started bleeding the rads and the water is a shit brown colour that comes out, so some of it must have gone in.

should i buy another bottle tomoz and do it again, making sure to get it directly into the pipe?

one thing i found tho is that the lower floor rads have not had any air come out yet, as they still had water in. how come these didint drain?

just trying to bleed the rads now.

 

depends how its piped up mate
if its got seperate pipe drops ya have to drain them seperatly

start venting at the furthest rad away from the boiler downstairs (with the heating turnd off) getting closer then when downstairs is done vent upstaires

the salamander you put in the tank will find its way round mate dont worry about getting another

pete

 

the bleeding needs to be done with it off?

when i tried it off, i got a bit of air out the rad in the bathroom, and then a bit out the one in the bedroom, but not much. kept going between the 2 and gettign little bits out at a time then it stopped. so i fired it up

all 3 rads on the top floor are now hot and have most of the air out, but its still not all bled yet.

ill go turn it off lol

 

yeah if the pumps runnin properly it will be pushin the air round and your just chasing it lol

remember do the ground floor first then up stairs the air will allways go to the highest point dude

good luck lol!!

 

right, done the kitchen rad first, got a washing up bowl full out, no air but it went from stone cold to warmish on the entry pipe.

remember i had the heating on for a bit so upstairs rads were hot.

next was lounge, got a washing up bowl again, no air. also didnt really get warm.

next was hallway rad, about half a washing up bowl, no air and not hot at all.

main bedroom next, was hot, no more air

second room, warm, no more air

bathroom last, again warm, no air.

so, fired the old girl up again, makes loads of swishy noises and a couple of bangs, but not as bad as before. this is with the pump on speed one, the slowest. will check now to see if its cutting out still.

 

any joy fudgey

 

fudge packer i reckon your pumps fucked pete come round to sort mine and it was banging like a fucker im sure he will come and fix it for you but the call out charge wont be cheap he also lives in derby you see

*EDITED* he will do anything for 3 door parts lol even sexual things i reckon

 

right, heating come on at 4am thismorning, banged like a cunt for about 1/2 hour before i could be arsed to get up, tried to bleed the rads and nothing. then it went silent.

all rads were hot.

missus came home and put heating on at 4.30 this evening and she said it seemed ok. except the lounge rad didnt get hot for over an hour.

i have now taken the stat off this rad to see if this make a diff, but so far it hasnt. still gets hot, just not as hot as the others. top is hotter that the bottom. (this is the rad that was removed and the start of the probs)

i still have all rads open on full to try to bleed etc

the heating went off at 7pm, i turned it back on at 7.04pm

started bangin like fook again.

so far there has been NO air at all come out the ground floor rads.

got a bit more air out the bathroom just now, but no others.

in the airing cupboard on top of the manual heating/hotwater valve there is like a brass collector with a screw cap on it, if i opn this sometimes a fair bit of air comes out of it, and last night burnt my finger as it was steam lol. but this also sucks air in if i leave the cap off (will then get a bit more air out etc)

pump is still making noises, kind of groaning noises...

also last night i noticed that up in the loft, the tank that the cold water suppky comes from, the pipe that makes the noise has hot water come out of it, into the tank - is this normal?

the will of course go fookin hot, but then goes cold.

i dont really know where to go next, i just cant get any air from the lower rads, no matter how much i bleed them.

its quiet now after the initial 10 mins noisyness, but the gas kept cutting out like it did before, but the pump is on speed 3 and temp on max.

that seems to be the only way it half works lol

thing is tho, that stuff i put in last night, i have to drain it all out in about 2 weeks and do it all again

saying that, id be surprised if id not drained it all out already trying to bleed it!

cheers pete, and the others for the advice

 

the reason mark knows how i do sexuall favours is because he couldnt pay me for sorting his heating out and offerd me OTHER means of payment lol
knowing mark i thought it was gonna be a big bag of weed, but i was wrong!!!!!
he dropd his trousers and i legg'd it

never seen him since lol

 

i have some 2wd cossie rear discs you can have lol

they are used tho

 

If you've got water coming out of the open vent pipe in the loft, then it pumping over.

You've got a blocked cold feed possibly in the airing cupboard, and that will explain the slow ness of some rads to heat up around the house.

 

Is there no one that lives near Dan that can go help him out.?

 

thanks steve, so how do i fix it lol?


the pipe that goes into the tank in the loft, do i need to somehow shove something very long and thin down it?

there was a bit of orangy brown gungy stuff on the insides of the tank but it must have happened last time the system was drained, when the rad was off.

 

euan i could always call out a plumber lol, but im far too pikey for that.

i will only call someone out once i have completely fucked it up myself

 

taken from my first post lol