Cosworth is manufacturing new YB Alloy Engine Blocks AND YB cylinder head (page 2)
10-11-2008, 06:26 PM
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Cosworth is manufacturing new YB Alloy Engine Blocks AND YB cylinder head (page 2)
Not sure if this has been posted here before. Tried to search but couldn't find any threads on it.
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...8&idproduct=28
Price $ 5.999.00
Strangely, this part is only found on the Cosworth USA website. No mentioning of it on the European website...
This Ford Cosworth YB aluminum cylinder block is a direct replacement for the European spec thick deck 200 iron block and can be used for 2wd or 4wd wet sump or dry sump applications. It is intended for normally aspirated or turbocharged engines. Cast from LM25 and heat treated to T6 condition for uncompromising strength. The large, robust shot peened cast alloy main caps are located with precision ground ring dowels and secured using a 12 mm high strength stud, washer, and nut kit. The thick-wall bores can accommodate dry iron straight thin wall liners in 90.8mm, 92mm, 94mm, and 96mm or the bores can be left unfinished allowing other liner types to be installed. Additionally, crankshafts up to 88mm stroke with high performance rods are acceptable. The deck height is finish machined to original specification 207.5mm, but is also available with a 217.5mm deck for long rod and/or stroker crank application. Unlike the iron block with limited material beneath the threaded head bolt/stud holes, this block features large cast pillars that extend internally from the deck to the crankcase portion of the block, which permit the threaded stud holes to be machined deep into the block; however, the stainless steel threaded inserts are installed at a depth to accommodate standard head bolts or an aftermarket head stud set. The combination of large internal pillars, thick cylinder walls and deep cast deck provides a very strong and stable block making through block stud arrangement unnecessary. Unless otherwise specified, each block is meticulously finished machined and arrives with the finish honed liners, main caps, main cap studs, bungs, core plugs, ring dowels, and head stud inserts installed.
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...8&idproduct=28
Price $ 5.999.00
Strangely, this part is only found on the Cosworth USA website. No mentioning of it on the European website...
This Ford Cosworth YB aluminum cylinder block is a direct replacement for the European spec thick deck 200 iron block and can be used for 2wd or 4wd wet sump or dry sump applications. It is intended for normally aspirated or turbocharged engines. Cast from LM25 and heat treated to T6 condition for uncompromising strength. The large, robust shot peened cast alloy main caps are located with precision ground ring dowels and secured using a 12 mm high strength stud, washer, and nut kit. The thick-wall bores can accommodate dry iron straight thin wall liners in 90.8mm, 92mm, 94mm, and 96mm or the bores can be left unfinished allowing other liner types to be installed. Additionally, crankshafts up to 88mm stroke with high performance rods are acceptable. The deck height is finish machined to original specification 207.5mm, but is also available with a 217.5mm deck for long rod and/or stroker crank application. Unlike the iron block with limited material beneath the threaded head bolt/stud holes, this block features large cast pillars that extend internally from the deck to the crankcase portion of the block, which permit the threaded stud holes to be machined deep into the block; however, the stainless steel threaded inserts are installed at a depth to accommodate standard head bolts or an aftermarket head stud set. The combination of large internal pillars, thick cylinder walls and deep cast deck provides a very strong and stable block making through block stud arrangement unnecessary. Unless otherwise specified, each block is meticulously finished machined and arrives with the finish honed liners, main caps, main cap studs, bungs, core plugs, ring dowels, and head stud inserts installed.
Last edited by cosworth; 14-11-2008 at 11:25 AM.
10-11-2008, 09:37 PM
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is that basically the same as a millington diamond block though albeit made by cosworth? so would be able to withstand the same power?
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10-11-2008, 09:57 PM
#9
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,But it came down to we have not run it that hard so cant say for sure it will take it. Only that the Scooby one we do has run up to 1000hp but this is not that engine.
Mark
10-11-2008, 10:03 PM
#11
arent they more popular with straight 6 pot engines to help stop the crank from moving in the middle under massive pressures?
anyone got one fitted to a YB you're aware of?
i also thought the YB crank construction and assembly was pretty bullet proof in standard form? (within reason ie not 1000hp,)
anyone got one fitted to a YB you're aware of?
i also thought the YB crank construction and assembly was pretty bullet proof in standard form? (within reason ie not 1000hp,)
10-11-2008, 10:05 PM
#12
I spoke to Cosworth US about this when it first came out and asked lots of details and got lots of answers,
But it came down to we have not run it that hard so cant say for sure it will take it. Only that the Scooby one we do has run up to 1000hp but this is not that engine.
Mark
,But it came down to we have not run it that hard so cant say for sure it will take it. Only that the Scooby one we do has run up to 1000hp but this is not that engine.
Mark
10-11-2008, 10:05 PM
#13
Lots of 4 pot motors run them too, and dont forget the standard YB you are talking about is made of iron.
Im sure cosworth know what they are doing FAR better than me though, so I guess if it doesnt have a girdle its cause it doesnt need one, id just like to see the decision making process for it if that was possible, which im sure it isnt!
Im sure cosworth know what they are doing FAR better than me though, so I guess if it doesnt have a girdle its cause it doesnt need one, id just like to see the decision making process for it if that was possible, which im sure it isnt!
10-11-2008, 10:05 PM
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I spoke to Cosworth US about this when it first came out and asked lots of details and got lots of answers,
But it came down to we have not run it that hard so cant say for sure it will take it. Only that the Scooby one we do has run up to 1000hp but this is not that engine.
Mark
,But it came down to we have not run it that hard so cant say for sure it will take it. Only that the Scooby one we do has run up to 1000hp but this is not that engine.
Mark
10-11-2008, 10:10 PM
#15
Lots of 4 pot motors run them too, and dont forget the standard YB you are talking about is made of iron.
Im sure cosworth know what they are doing FAR better than me though, so I guess if it doesnt have a girdle its cause it doesnt need one, id just like to see the decision making process for it if that was possible, which im sure it isnt!
Im sure cosworth know what they are doing FAR better than me though, so I guess if it doesnt have a girdle its cause it doesnt need one, id just like to see the decision making process for it if that was possible, which im sure it isnt!
wernt aware 4 pot motors ran them; would have thought it would have been overkill; although i suppose it depends on the application & purpose
10-11-2008, 10:15 PM
#18
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Hi Mark,
Thank you for your response. This alloy block has been designed with the intention of being a direct replacement for the iron block. Therefore, it should be ok for virtually any application that the iron block is used for. Additionally, all of our racing engines have alloy blocks and we have even built a 1000 h.p. Subaru engine using a factory alloy block. Having said that, no I do not have a HP/TQ rating on the block, nor would I rate the block. There are too many variables that influence the performance and longevity of the block that are beyond my control. I am just getting the block out into the market, although they have been running for quite a while. I know that this really does not answer your question, but I will learn more as these blocks find their way into many applications and I will inform you if I run into someone running one with a similar output to what you are looking for.
Thank you for your response. This alloy block has been designed with the intention of being a direct replacement for the iron block. Therefore, it should be ok for virtually any application that the iron block is used for. Additionally, all of our racing engines have alloy blocks and we have even built a 1000 h.p. Subaru engine using a factory alloy block. Having said that, no I do not have a HP/TQ rating on the block, nor would I rate the block. There are too many variables that influence the performance and longevity of the block that are beyond my control. I am just getting the block out into the market, although they have been running for quite a while. I know that this really does not answer your question, but I will learn more as these blocks find their way into many applications and I will inform you if I run into someone running one with a similar output to what you are looking for.
Hello Mark,
Please ask as many questions as you desire. The liners are thin wall (1.6mm) cast iron liners. I do not know the material spec at the moment, but I can find out for you. No, they are not coated. They are similar to what we use to run in our BDP midget engines and the wear characteristics were fine.
We use to carry a proper wasted or relieved shank head bolt that could be re-used many times, but they are no longer available. (Sorry, I don't know why) Therefore, we currently carry in stock either the one use standard head bolts (YB0449) @ $4.17 per bolt or ARP Head Stud Sets (PR8050) @ $116.18 per set. Incidentally, we have the ARP Main Stud Sets too (PR8049) at $91.87 per set.
I currently have special Cometic MLS Gaskets on order, which I should have in about three weeks. These are special because some of the water holes have been modified and the exact bore/I.D. of the gasket has been specified in order for me to provide a stronger/better gasket for this alloy block application. Our standard bore YB gasket (YB0611) can be used on the standard bore alloy YB block. The gaskets will be priced at a normal reasonable price for a good quality head gasket, probably $85.00 - $90.00 per gasket.
The liners that are fitted into these blocks are thin wall iron liners that can be honed a few thou for clean-up during a rebuild, but if liners need to be replaced, they can be. The standard procedure is to machine down one side of the liner until the section thickness is very thin. Then due to the compression that the liner is under, the liner will basically pop and release itself from the bore of the block. The block is heated, new liners installed, liners are bored and/or honed, block and/or liner tops are ground, and you are back in business. These are standard procedures for the replacement of thin wall dry liners.
Although only a handful of these blocks have been sold and are currently running (because the block has only recently released), there is 15 years of experience and knowledge that has gone into the design of the block by an ex-Millington employee. This direct replacement block has been under development for the last three years.
You ask a question about the material spec of the liners in one of your past emails. The material is Normalized Pearlitic, Ferritic matrix.
These are my replies from Cosworth.
Mark
Please ask as many questions as you desire. The liners are thin wall (1.6mm) cast iron liners. I do not know the material spec at the moment, but I can find out for you. No, they are not coated. They are similar to what we use to run in our BDP midget engines and the wear characteristics were fine.
We use to carry a proper wasted or relieved shank head bolt that could be re-used many times, but they are no longer available. (Sorry, I don't know why) Therefore, we currently carry in stock either the one use standard head bolts (YB0449) @ $4.17 per bolt or ARP Head Stud Sets (PR8050) @ $116.18 per set. Incidentally, we have the ARP Main Stud Sets too (PR8049) at $91.87 per set.
I currently have special Cometic MLS Gaskets on order, which I should have in about three weeks. These are special because some of the water holes have been modified and the exact bore/I.D. of the gasket has been specified in order for me to provide a stronger/better gasket for this alloy block application. Our standard bore YB gasket (YB0611) can be used on the standard bore alloy YB block. The gaskets will be priced at a normal reasonable price for a good quality head gasket, probably $85.00 - $90.00 per gasket.
The liners that are fitted into these blocks are thin wall iron liners that can be honed a few thou for clean-up during a rebuild, but if liners need to be replaced, they can be. The standard procedure is to machine down one side of the liner until the section thickness is very thin. Then due to the compression that the liner is under, the liner will basically pop and release itself from the bore of the block. The block is heated, new liners installed, liners are bored and/or honed, block and/or liner tops are ground, and you are back in business. These are standard procedures for the replacement of thin wall dry liners.
Although only a handful of these blocks have been sold and are currently running (because the block has only recently released), there is 15 years of experience and knowledge that has gone into the design of the block by an ex-Millington employee. This direct replacement block has been under development for the last three years.
You ask a question about the material spec of the liners in one of your past emails. The material is Normalized Pearlitic, Ferritic matrix.
These are my replies from Cosworth.
Mark
10-11-2008, 10:16 PM
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Chip: what a girdle is, can you show? I don't understand the word and I don't want to spend half of the night googling if you can tell me simply? I am guessing is it the type of one piece set of main caps as used on 4G64 Mitsu Evo?
Last edited by Azrael; 10-11-2008 at 10:20 PM.
10-11-2008, 10:17 PM
#20
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Lots of 4 pot motors run them too, and dont forget the standard YB you are talking about is made of iron.
Im sure cosworth know what they are doing FAR better than me though, so I guess if it doesnt have a girdle its cause it doesnt need one, id just like to see the decision making process for it if that was possible, which im sure it isnt!
Im sure cosworth know what they are doing FAR better than me though, so I guess if it doesnt have a girdle its cause it doesnt need one, id just like to see the decision making process for it if that was possible, which im sure it isnt!
Mark
11-11-2008, 09:26 AM
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I will use one in the future but not right now, can't say why. 
11-11-2008, 11:59 AM
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11-11-2008, 01:46 PM
#33
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Looking forward to more information with great anticipation.
I've been to the Cosworth factory in Northampton and did tour of the facilities. This was when they where preparing their last F1 engine. Got to see the V8 on the dyno and all the other bits (apart from some places) of the F1 and road engine departments. Impressive stuff. Especially the F1 pistons, cranks, cylinder blocks and camshafts.
11-11-2008, 07:32 PM
#34
Alloy YB Block
Cosworth Inc are only marketing the block.
The block is made by ex-employees of a UK company on the other side of the world.
A highly respected UK based tuner is doing an assessment for a high power YB build.
I have seen the block in N/A use, I have doubts it will be suitable for big horsepower use (not what it was designed for and I am no expert)
Steve
The block is made by ex-employees of a UK company on the other side of the world.
A highly respected UK based tuner is doing an assessment for a high power YB build.
I have seen the block in N/A use, I have doubts it will be suitable for big horsepower use (not what it was designed for and I am no expert)
Steve
11-11-2008, 07:38 PM
#35
Cosworth Inc are only marketing the block.
The block is made by ex-employees of a UK company on the other side of the world.
A highly respected UK based tuner is doing an assessment for a high power YB build.
I have seen the block in N/A use, I have doubts it will be suitable for big horsepower use (not what it was designed for and I am no expert)
Steve
The block is made by ex-employees of a UK company on the other side of the world.
A highly respected UK based tuner is doing an assessment for a high power YB build.
I have seen the block in N/A use, I have doubts it will be suitable for big horsepower use (not what it was designed for and I am no expert)
Steve
11-11-2008, 07:43 PM
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11-11-2008, 07:53 PM
#37
Hypothetically, if the alloy block was cast using the original cast iron mould, would it not be weaker ?
I know the have introduced more metal to the stud areas but the block wall thickness is less.
When Ford and Harts did the BDT and BDT/E four bolt main caps were used and much more metal was introduced to strengthen the block in the main bearing area and a dry deck format was used to improve the rigidity of the deck face.
Steve
11-11-2008, 08:27 PM
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i cant see why it shouldent hold together?
The evos produce what 1500bhp now on alu blocks?
Why should this one not hold together for 600+bhp then?
The evos produce what 1500bhp now on alu blocks?
Why should this one not hold together for 600+bhp then?
11-11-2008, 08:31 PM
#39
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Thread Starter
Torsional rigidity and overall strength, aluminium is weaker than cast iron.
Hypothetically, if the alloy block was cast using the original cast iron mould, would it not be weaker ?
I know the have introduced more metal to the stud areas but the block wall thickness is less.
When Ford and Harts did the BDT and BDT/E four bolt main caps were used and much more metal was introduced to strengthen the block in the main bearing area and a dry deck format was used to improve the rigidity of the deck face.
Steve
Hypothetically, if the alloy block was cast using the original cast iron mould, would it not be weaker ?
I know the have introduced more metal to the stud areas but the block wall thickness is less.
When Ford and Harts did the BDT and BDT/E four bolt main caps were used and much more metal was introduced to strengthen the block in the main bearing area and a dry deck format was used to improve the rigidity of the deck face.
Steve
I don't know any details of the Cosworth YB block so I cannot comment on the actual strength of that particular design. There is however nothing to indicate that a aluminium alloy block should'nt be able to cope with high power outputs and torsional rigidity issues. Quite the contrary I would say. Cosworth should have plenty of experience with aluminium alloy blocks in high power/torsional rigidity applications. Hence they should have the necessary know how to make this a rigid and solid block (I don't know if this particular design has those qualities though - just that it should be possible).
Any other, better educated, views on this?
11-11-2008, 08:33 PM
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Cosworth Inc are only marketing the block.
The block is made by ex-employees of a UK company on the other side of the world.
A highly respected UK based tuner is doing an assessment for a high power YB build.
I have seen the block in N/A use, I have doubts it will be suitable for big horsepower use (not what it was designed for and I am no expert)
Steve
The block is made by ex-employees of a UK company on the other side of the world.
A highly respected UK based tuner is doing an assessment for a high power YB build.
I have seen the block in N/A use, I have doubts it will be suitable for big horsepower use (not what it was designed for and I am no expert)
Steve