Any employment law experts?
10-11-2008, 12:30 AM
#1
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
Any employment law experts?
One of my mates was a printer and he had been at his company only 9 months because his previous company went out of business.
On Wednesday morning he arrived at work and was called into the office. He was told that he was being suspended because he had been spotted taking photos of his board that displays what work he has on for the day. His company doesn't have any notices stating that you can't take photos and there is nothing in his contract stating that.
On Thursday he got a letter sent through the post recorded delivery stating that he had a hearing on Friday morning at nine am and they had appointed their own witness but he could also take one of his own.
He attended the hearing and explained that he had taken photos of the board giving details of his work for the day because it was easier than writing it down and he copied it down when he was at his machine and deleted the text, they said they didn't have anything on his to dismiss him under gross misconduct so they would issue a verbal warning and they were considering making him redundant instead
I've just seen him tonight and on Saturday morning he received a letter via recorded post stating that he had been made redundant
I can't see how they can single him out for redundancy after a hearing for something that they had no grounds for and surely it cannot be legal to make someone redundant by post If they say you can't take photos surely they need to tell the employees
What does everyone think about that?
Paul
On Wednesday morning he arrived at work and was called into the office. He was told that he was being suspended because he had been spotted taking photos of his board that displays what work he has on for the day. His company doesn't have any notices stating that you can't take photos and there is nothing in his contract stating that.
On Thursday he got a letter sent through the post recorded delivery stating that he had a hearing on Friday morning at nine am and they had appointed their own witness but he could also take one of his own.
He attended the hearing and explained that he had taken photos of the board giving details of his work for the day because it was easier than writing it down and he copied it down when he was at his machine and deleted the text, they said they didn't have anything on his to dismiss him under gross misconduct so they would issue a verbal warning and they were considering making him redundant instead
I've just seen him tonight and on Saturday morning he received a letter via recorded post stating that he had been made redundant
I can't see how they can single him out for redundancy after a hearing for something that they had no grounds for and surely it cannot be legal to make someone redundant by post
If they say you can't take photos surely they need to tell the employees What does everyone think about that?
Paul
10-11-2008, 01:33 AM
#2
they are just making an excuse to make him redundant and not loose quite so much face with the other employees. IE when hes gone they will diss him to the other employees playing up the "incident".
As long as they follow the correct procedures for redundancy then i doubt hes got a leg to stand on. The verbal warning is irrelevant. If it ever went to a tribunal the employer would merely state that redundancy issue was seperate and that they were being "good" employers by giving him notice of the possibility when they met with him.
He might be able to successfully contest the verbal warning but its pointless as hes redundant.
As long as they follow the correct procedures for redundancy then i doubt hes got a leg to stand on. The verbal warning is irrelevant. If it ever went to a tribunal the employer would merely state that redundancy issue was seperate and that they were being "good" employers by giving him notice of the possibility when they met with him.
He might be able to successfully contest the verbal warning but its pointless as hes redundant.
10-11-2008, 02:06 AM
#3
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they are just making an excuse to make him redundant and not loose quite so much face with the other employees. IE when hes gone they will diss him to the other employees playing up the "incident".
As long as they follow the correct procedures for redundancy then i doubt hes got a leg to stand on. The verbal warning is irrelevant. If it ever went to a tribunal the employer would merely state that redundancy issue was seperate and that they were being "good" employers by giving him notice of the possibility when they met with him.
He might be able to successfully contest the verbal warning but its pointless as hes redundant.
As long as they follow the correct procedures for redundancy then i doubt hes got a leg to stand on. The verbal warning is irrelevant. If it ever went to a tribunal the employer would merely state that redundancy issue was seperate and that they were being "good" employers by giving him notice of the possibility when they met with him.
He might be able to successfully contest the verbal warning but its pointless as hes redundant.
They are clearly in the shit and need to lay people off! Damage limitation to keep moral/panic under control! Boss probably doesnt like his face, so 1st for the chop!
Bastards!
10-11-2008, 07:20 AM
#4
if it's a volentary derundancy then it should be offered to everyone who works at the same level as he is first up
after that, there should be a time scale for the take up of the volentaryredundancy package
after that there will be forced redundancies
so they have either not sent him the letters, or he's not rememebred that they sent them, or he's the only one on his level that they can ge rid of wihtout affecting the rest of their business
if there is n timescale he may have soemthng, but only having been there for 9 months it may be a case of last in first out, 2 years if i rememebr correctly is the minimum before you hav a leg to stand on redundancy wise in relation to getting a wedge
after that, there should be a time scale for the take up of the volentaryredundancy package
after that there will be forced redundancies
so they have either not sent him the letters, or he's not rememebred that they sent them, or he's the only one on his level that they can ge rid of wihtout affecting the rest of their business
if there is n timescale he may have soemthng, but only having been there for 9 months it may be a case of last in first out, 2 years if i rememebr correctly is the minimum before you hav a leg to stand on redundancy wise in relation to getting a wedge
10-11-2008, 08:08 AM
#5
Colossal Pervert
Actually I think if it went to court the company would lose because it's obvious it's not a genuine reason for redundancy and they're twisting the system. Speak to ACAS, they have a free advice line.
10-11-2008, 09:30 AM
#6
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
No timescales involved Dojj, on Friday in the hearing they said to him "we haven't got grounds to sack you so we may have to let you go due a downturn in work" not a word from them all day then the redundancy letter arrived on Saturday. That doesn't seem like the right way to make somebody redundant to me
10-11-2008, 10:14 AM
#7
at our place, everyone knew they wanted to get rid of one guy, other than the guy himself, so when the oportunity arose, the redundncy letters were shipped to everyone about 3 months beforehand, asking for "volentary redundnacy" packages so you knew what you were worth to the company if you took it and you knew what you were worth to the company if you didn't (sweetening the deal so to speak so that the peole they wanted out they could kick out and the people they wanted to keep they could keep)
the only thing here that seems to be different (other than the timescales) is that he's only been there for 9 months, so it would be worth talking to someone who knows about these things to see if he CAN actually be made redundant or if the company have confused themselves
there will also be the question as to how he was recruited, or did they simply buy his business and retian him on a different contract, hee needs to get his paperwork and dates in order first and not be telling porkie pies and go from there
if there is a case there then his company look like they will be facing defeat fairly horendously
hope it works out for him
the only thing here that seems to be different (other than the timescales) is that he's only been there for 9 months, so it would be worth talking to someone who knows about these things to see if he CAN actually be made redundant or if the company have confused themselves
there will also be the question as to how he was recruited, or did they simply buy his business and retian him on a different contract, hee needs to get his paperwork and dates in order first and not be telling porkie pies and go from there
if there is a case there then his company look like they will be facing defeat fairly horendously
hope it works out for him
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10-11-2008, 10:36 AM
#8
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
Thanks Dojj
No letters were sent out before hand, nobody put at risk, no skills assessment nothing
He is now finished working there so hopefully he will be seeking legal advice and taking it from there because he has been clearly singled out.
Is it legal to make somebody redundant by post?
No letters were sent out before hand, nobody put at risk, no skills assessment nothing
He is now finished working there so hopefully he will be seeking legal advice and taking it from there because he has been clearly singled out.Is it legal to make somebody redundant by post?
10-11-2008, 10:48 AM
#9
even if it was an enforced redundnacy, you can't just make one person redundant and let everything else carry on as normal
they can claim that he was given a different job title bu then they would have had to shift him sideways in the copnay before doing something about it
it does stink but he'll need a proper legal bod on the case to see if they've got rid of him in an illegal way
they may cite the credit crunch as a reason, but again, they would be laying of more than just one person in that case
did he get any money to cover his months wages etc? beause if they have made him redundant they might have got away with it by covering his notice buy paying it to him, that's quite legal and above board
they can claim that he was given a different job title bu then they would have had to shift him sideways in the copnay before doing something about it
it does stink but he'll need a proper legal bod on the case to see if they've got rid of him in an illegal way
they may cite the credit crunch as a reason, but again, they would be laying of more than just one person in that case
did he get any money to cover his months wages etc? beause if they have made him redundant they might have got away with it by covering his notice buy paying it to him, that's quite legal and above board
10-11-2008, 10:57 AM
#10
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
even if it was an enforced redundnacy, you can't just make one person redundant and let everything else carry on as normal
they can claim that he was given a different job title bu then they would have had to shift him sideways in the copnay before doing something about it
it does stink but he'll need a proper legal bod on the case to see if they've got rid of him in an illegal way
they may cite the credit crunch as a reason, but again, they would be laying of more than just one person in that case
did he get any money to cover his months wages etc? beause if they have made him redundant they might have got away with it by covering his notice buy paying it to him, that's quite legal and above board
they can claim that he was given a different job title bu then they would have had to shift him sideways in the copnay before doing something about it
it does stink but he'll need a proper legal bod on the case to see if they've got rid of him in an illegal way
they may cite the credit crunch as a reason, but again, they would be laying of more than just one person in that case
did he get any money to cover his months wages etc? beause if they have made him redundant they might have got away with it by covering his notice buy paying it to him, that's quite legal and above board
The print industry isn't a good business to be in and print shops are closing all over the place, 2 of my mates are printers and they have been struggling to find work. One of them works for a printers in Slough and they are relocating to Salisbury and he has to commute there 4 days a week instead of Slough when they go
10-11-2008, 11:17 AM
#11
then they have probably got away with getting rid of him then i'm sorry to say
in the same way that you have to work a period of notice before you can leave to ensure that your employers have a resonable chance of filling the spot that has opened up or you lose a months wages, they can let you go with a months wages in lieu of you being there to work the time out, in which case you migth be tmpted to fuck shit up for them out of spite of losing your job
the guy who does our printing said the same thing, whereas our company used to make up around 10% of his workload a month, it's now making up around 25% of his workload a month, he blames too many peole printing out incoves from their pc's rather than ordering dedicated headed good qulity paper to impress peole with
in the same way that you have to work a period of notice before you can leave to ensure that your employers have a resonable chance of filling the spot that has opened up or you lose a months wages, they can let you go with a months wages in lieu of you being there to work the time out, in which case you migth be tmpted to fuck shit up for them out of spite of losing your job
the guy who does our printing said the same thing, whereas our company used to make up around 10% of his workload a month, it's now making up around 25% of his workload a month, he blames too many peole printing out incoves from their pc's rather than ordering dedicated headed good qulity paper to impress peole with
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