Chip

iTrader: (3)

I suspect you havent got a clue whats involved sfotware wise once you really get into it? SOOOO many algorythms that you have mentioned nothing about which are far more of a big deal than any of that stuff.

Transient fuelling for one.


MS is great, just change that to what you want, although NOTHING mentioned in this thread so far isnt covered by MS anyway as far as im aware, so no changes needed.

Likewise SM4 that I have, does everything people in this thread have mentioned, and does it fucking well.


While people are commenting about Stu, Ive always found him very professional and the products ive bought from him have worked perfectly, but then I know what im doing using them, maybe tabby doesnt

SteveH

Thanks to chip, stu, simon, et al for the informed replies (if i missed your name it wasnt deliberate, thank you too )

The original idea came about when I read about a guy who had made his own ECU for an escos (flux capacitor if i have made the right connections in my head, but im not sure) in fast ford, years ago. Some time later I heard of MS and heard some typical horror stories, and being slightly gullible and by no means an expert, I believed it wasn't very good, so got talking to my brother about our own ECU. Then I started to hear more factual, informed information about it and in the right hands, how good it can actually be.
Now i'm more informed with facts (hence the thanks) I got to wondering about its limitations, and if it can be made to work as per a factory ECU. I know the technology has existed for some time, as my own car has it I was wondering if between us, we could scratch build something, based on MS, but an improved version. I think it would be a great project for us, I want to learn more about this type of thing, and my brother wants to learn more about the mechanics of cars, so it would be a mutually beneficial project, that we can both be proud of.
It doesnt seem like I need to do this, perhaps we'll build our own MS and have a play with it, i'm sure there's plenty we will both learn from that.

So, based on that, what do you guys think we could improve on? Would speeding up the sample/correct time improve anything noticeably? things like that.

God, im such a fiddler, I cant leave anything alone. If i had T6 i'd still want to dick about with it. I'm just fascinated with this, and reading about it makes me want to go out and have a go myself, rather than claim I know about it. If I go armed with good, informed information, I wont go too far wrong, and will learn by doing too

Cheers

Steve

Chip

iTrader: (3)

There are literally hundreds of clever people constantly evolving the MS project still as far as im aware.

Maybe join their forum and offer up your skills.

Azrael

I wouldn't say that SM4 does knock-control

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

That my friend is the best way to learn

Best saying ever: Tell me and I’ll remember for an hour. Show me and I’ll remember for a day. But, let me do it, and I’ll remember it forever.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It does with me attached to it via a set of det cans, lol

although in all seriousness, I wouldnt want to trust spark advance on a turbo motor personally, im old fashioned like that, i prefer to trust my ears.

SteveH

Will do chip, didnt know they had a forum!

PS Sorry I didnt text you about pod, I didnt go on saturday then had to leave my car on sunday as it broke down, so would have had nothing to show you

Cheers, great saying too, thanks!!

GARETH T

chip is the "feedback loop" in the control LOL

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The knock control function can be overly sensitive after heavy drinking the night before though

Azrael

You really should try how the standard system works on Evo. It really is amazing (with right mapping) and won't let you brake you engine even if you can't map...

GARETH T

the proportional control is set to 90% then LOL

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Id like to have a look at that at some point, must nag Si B into getting the cable and software for his

Azrael

If you need the software just let me know. As to cable -> www.tactrix.com, or www.limitless.nz

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Steve,

Yes mate that was me...LOL

ECU's are NOT as accurate as most people think.
This is because everything read in is averaged to stabilise it !
This stability provides the best accuracy.

Its good to experiment which is why I built mine in the first place.
If you have the knowledge start from scratch or take something like MS and adapt it to your own uses.

With current engine technology there isnt much to be gained IMO but its fun to learn as you fiddle.

Enjoy

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

Geek blagging rights?

pa_sjo

To be honest, I wouldn't base anything on MS. It is fundamentally flawed (from an architecture perspective) and the two old gits who govern the project don't seem remotely interested in taking it into the 21st century. If it wasn't for the community hacking it to pieces it wouldn't be anywhere now.

Don't misread this as "flawed and doesn't work" - it works fine, very well infact, and better than the majority of aftermarket ECU's! But it's only where it is today because of a few dedicated people patching up the bruises.

SteveH

TBH my brother could do it, IF he knew about cars, and I dont know enough about either subject (cars or electronics) to do it from genuine scratch ie my own design.
I think we'll try a MS and work from there, if we hit a problem we'll try to work round it. Its the learning by doing I'm most interested in.
How did you come about your idea and original plan? Would you be willing to share any details?
Cheers

Steve

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Steveh,

I was already in the ECU business for a major company as a design engineer reverse engineering other ecu's to write chipping software for others
I wanted my own car tuned but at the time it cost 1000's to but a chip.
So after about 2 years work and learning to map, I made one from
scratch !!!
Sounds like a long time but when you consider the amount of software needed and design effort along with experimention and the fact it was ALL my own work it, it was fun and worked out great.

Unfortunately, when people see stuff like this they want you to sell it.
That was where I fooked up and the rest is history...LOL

I will help if I can but its a lot of work !!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you value your own time at 10p an hour, its cheaper to buy an ecu than make one IMHO

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Agreed..LOL

Chip

iTrader: (3)

So if you got a parttime job in mcdonalds on 7 quid an hour, it would take you 70 times less to have a decent ECU than if you make one.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Now where is my number 1 fan?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

I started to make ecu's because I wanted a never ending supply of Big Macs




Aahh here is Tabby now and he dont look too happy ....




Sorry

AlexF

Who is Tabatha anyway?!

Good thread btw

Rab

Someone who talks a load of balls by the looks of things.

BigErn

When did I say I was a fiddler?? Believe it or not I cant play any musical instrument at all, bar maybe the triangle

And how long have I been called Steve?

SteveH

Thanks, PM'd you my address, you can come end do it
Any input would be cool though, from anyone in the know, so much appreciated. I'll start a thread as & when we get moving.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

What does det sound like, I haven't a clue?!



Good thread Steve.

pa_sjo

In the cans.. well.. over the noise of the valvetrain you hear det like small ball-bearings hitting a metal surface.. like a high pitch 'tick tick' noise.. but you can also hear the harshness of the engine change tone as you get close to det, but that takes a more experienced ear!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Like a metallic tapping noise.

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

I'd describe it as nails rolling round in a jar.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Back on topic somewhat more, look up the Adaptronic range of ECU's that Jaycos has used a few times (not done one myself), they are FULLY self mapping, to a scarey extent TBH, they will do both the timing and fuelling in closed loop to build the base tables for you more or less from scratch.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Cheers

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

ur right its scary i fuel det checked a sx 200 with one fitted which was my first experience then asked the chap if i could save his map on my laptop then mess up the map and see how it delt with it ,so i picked several parts of the fuel map then added loads of fuel here and there then went to the map trace page whilst we were driving it coughing and farting and you can physically see the fuel map being corrected and within 15 mins the car was driving really smooth

SteveH

Thats awesome!!

Sort of thing I want to get MS doing.

Do you just tell it to keep between x and y AFR, x and y degrees advance/retard etc, or does it literally do the entire thing from scratch?

how good is the map when its done? do you think intelligent input from a good mapper could get it any better?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You tell it the required AFR, and it gets it EXACTLY, not in a range.

And the timing, you give it a start point, and it advances till det then comes back a number of degrees from there that you specify.

pa_sjo

MS doesn't do spark creep!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

i think afr side no i dont think a mapper willl do any better manual as its quicker

the bloke who put this ecu on cossie bassie cossie from the netherlands hadd a good afr up to 1.5 bar on a dirty 3o from nothing but a simple base to start map 2o mins later it was safe and drivable ! the ecu the when held on a particular site will also add or subtract to the sites front and back up and down around the site it is also adjusting. BUT its only as good as its initail setup to parameters ect

ingintion is really what chip says BUT would realisticly spend a hour on the rollers with det cans also using the rollers to find peak power/torque

SteveH

I take it that is spark creep, as pa_sjo says?

So you can adjust it, and it wont revert back, or self learn over what you have told it on the rollers?
Sounds like awesome stuff! would it be nigh on impossible to get MS doing spark creep? If i had some technical diagrams of it, my brother could interpret them, and possibly make something simliar, but its integrating it to MS and then making it work. I know that would be incredibly difficult, but I'd learn so much from doing it, or even having a go!!

Thanks for making this a great read fellas!!

pa_sjo

SteveH- the most important thing to bear in mind is 95% of todays aftermarket ECU's are basing themselves on strategies that were in OEM ECU's in the 80's.. we're talking 20 years ago.. yes, the crap that is out there today is already 20 years out of date..

So copying crap stuff that is copying 20yr old tech isn't truly a great idea