P8 Antilag - no idle?
08-11-2004, 01:10 PM
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P8 Antilag - no idle?
My car refuses to idle properly until warm - is this due to the antilag entirely? or is it due to the specific map in the P8?
08-11-2004, 01:19 PM
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I was told that they use the iscv as the solenoid to inject more air for the als - but i just wanted to be 100% its nothing untoward. 
08-11-2004, 03:05 PM
#5
DEYTUKURJERBS
Basicly on most ALS setups the ISCV is swapped for a modded higher flowing one used for ALS and its ISCV functions are removed, so its the same as running without one.
On my old 3dr it didnt make a jot of difference, wether it was due to the map i duno but even on nights where there was ice all over the car itd start and idle perfectly every time, apart from somtimes needing a blip on 1st start up, but literally 1 blip, nowt else.
ALS valves, esp mountune ones, are often shoddily made and stick open, but that causes a high idle not low, but thas easy to fix too, take em apart (allen key) file down the rough edges, grease it up, and no more probs.
On my old 3dr it didnt make a jot of difference, wether it was due to the map i duno but even on nights where there was ice all over the car itd start and idle perfectly every time, apart from somtimes needing a blip on 1st start up, but literally 1 blip, nowt else.
ALS valves, esp mountune ones, are often shoddily made and stick open, but that causes a high idle not low, but thas easy to fix too, take em apart (allen key) file down the rough edges, grease it up, and no more probs.
08-11-2004, 03:22 PM
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Youll probbaly need to open up the airbypass holes on the throttle body (or drill a hole in the plate), to let air thru when the throttle is shut as your ISCV wont be working propperly 
08-11-2004, 03:35 PM
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On a decent ALS installation the Idle Speed Control Valve should not have been touched and the cars idle should not have changed.
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve.
Also the cars ildling should be partly controlled by the maps water and air temperature compensations.
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve.
Also the cars ildling should be partly controlled by the maps water and air temperature compensations.
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08-11-2004, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilM
Youll probbaly need to open up the airbypass holes on the throttle body (or drill a hole in the plate), to let air thru when the throttle is shut as your ISCV wont be working propperly
That explains it then - thanks all.
08-11-2004, 04:02 PM
#9
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by zvhturbo
On a decent ALS installation the Idle Speed Control Valve should not have been touched and the cars idle should not have changed.
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve
Ive seen it one ONE road car (Gareth EscCos's) and on WRC cars.
(tho im sure theres a few more)
All others, inc rallycars, have had a single one replacing the ISCV.
IMO there no real need to have 2, if properly mapped/setup it should idle fine even on freezing days on a cold engine like mine did (on greys).
08-11-2004, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Originally Posted by zvhturbo
On a decent ALS installation the Idle Speed Control Valve should not have been touched and the cars idle should not have changed.
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve
08-11-2004, 04:12 PM
#11
I have ALS on min Escort on P8 and the idle is spot on (when warm). However, as stated the ICV is replaced with an ALS item, so when first started in really cold weather it doesn't like to idle of it's own accord (the job of the ICV) until it has been running for about 1 or 2 minutes. So to answer your question - this is nothing untoward and perfectly normal.
I have also fitted a relay to avoid the initial throttle "blip" that otherwise occurs on start up.
Please just be aware that the ALS valve needs to be cleaned as regularly as the ICV to avoid it clogging in the same way.
I have also fitted a relay to avoid the initial throttle "blip" that otherwise occurs on start up.
Please just be aware that the ALS valve needs to be cleaned as regularly as the ICV to avoid it clogging in the same way.
08-11-2004, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Originally Posted by zvhturbo
On a decent ALS installation the Idle Speed Control Valve should not have been touched and the cars idle should not have changed.
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve
If done properly a new bypass should have been made for the new ALS valve
Ive seen it one ONE road car (Gareth EscCos's) and on WRC cars.
(tho im sure theres a few more)
All others, inc rallycars, have had a single one replacing the ISCV.
IMO there no real need to have 2, if properly mapped/setup it should idle fine even on freezing days on a cold engine like mine did (on greys).
I've never even looked at this set up on a cossie to be honest.
If done properly and i'm sure people such as Stu and Karl will know you should keep the idle valve and have a seperate throttle bypass with another idle valve in line (which is your anti lag valve)
Also please note that a anti lag valve is exactly the same as a idle valve, so if you've had anti lag fitted and paid for a "anti lag valve" the chances are all they did was wire brush your idle valve and charge you for it
Matt.
08-11-2004, 04:24 PM
#14
Matt,
You're talking bollocks - the anti-lag valve has MUCH different internals - even if it looks the same on the outside
.
You can have a remote ICV to replace the ALS one (thus having two), but I've never considered this an issue, as it resolves itself after a minute or so and only ever occurs in very cold weather...
You're talking bollocks - the anti-lag valve has MUCH different internals - even if it looks the same on the outside
.You can have a remote ICV to replace the ALS one (thus having two), but I've never considered this an issue, as it resolves itself after a minute or so and only ever occurs in very cold weather...
08-11-2004, 04:37 PM
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Mike your knowledge is clearly limited the the anti lag system fitted to most cosworths.
The INTERNALS are exactly the same on both these valves, however the lower part that moves is modified to increase the air flow on the so called anti lag valve.
As you probably know the more air flow the more anti lag you can run etc.
All the valves are is a simple on off valve, when off its closed, when on its open.
People modify the idle valve on cosworths because its a cheap easy way of doing it.
The correct way of doing it is to have another valve, with its own throttle bypass.
The reason WRC cars don't have a seperate valve is purely because they done NEED a idle valve!!!
This is a common idle valve used for anti lag~
The INTERNALS are exactly the same on both these valves, however the lower part that moves is modified to increase the air flow on the so called anti lag valve.
As you probably know the more air flow the more anti lag you can run etc.
All the valves are is a simple on off valve, when off its closed, when on its open.
People modify the idle valve on cosworths because its a cheap easy way of doing it.
The correct way of doing it is to have another valve, with its own throttle bypass.
The reason WRC cars don't have a seperate valve is purely because they done NEED a idle valve!!!
This is a common idle valve used for anti lag~
08-11-2004, 04:43 PM
#19
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by zvhturbo
Also please note that a anti lag valve is exactly the same as a idle valve, so if you've had anti lag fitted and paid for a "anti lag valve" the chances are all they did was wire brush your idle valve and charge you for it
Mental note to you mate, DONT comment on things you know NOTHING about, esp trying to teach lessons to people who DO
A ISCV and a PROPER ALS valve are NOTHING alike apart from the outside casing of them
Even the most basic look at them will show you the ISCV has some pissy lil punger and the ALS valve is a large steel valve over an inch i diameter
It sounds to me more like you be "taught" by a tuner who is infact telling you bollocks to pull your pants down mate
08-11-2004, 04:50 PM
#20
What a crock of shit . The ALS valve on my car is totally different to the ICV . For a start it is stainless-steel and is also electro-magnetic and has no spring (and so absolutely must not be mounted upside down, or it won't work - unlike an ICV ).
ALS Valve
Idle control valve.
Mmmmm - no difference . TWAT .
. The ALS valve on my car is totally different to the ICV . For a start it is stainless-steel and is also electro-magnetic and has no spring (and so absolutely must not be mounted upside down, or it won't work - unlike an ICV ).ALS Valve
Idle control valve.
Mmmmm - no difference
. TWAT .
08-11-2004, 04:51 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by rapidcossie
whats the best way to clean an iscv?
the much and grime that came out was unbelievable, EVEN after spraying it with loads of carb cleaner .
08-11-2004, 04:54 PM
#22
DEYTUKURJERBS
Heres a quick lesson for me expert
STANDARD cossie ISCV---
NOTE that the VALVE in a ISCV is INSIDE that lil hole in the bottom, so a teeny lil valve, and the OUTLET is the lil tiny indentation on the side, its less than 1cm square, it can be made bigger, but the valve is still a tiny thing in that hole.
ALS Valve
NOTE theres NO outside casing, the thing is ONE HUGE VALVE that slides up and down on that spindle, its about 1.5" diameter.
ALSO an ALS valve is controlled by an electro magnet..
Yea, exactly the fookin same eh mr expert 
EDIT! Mike you bastard to beat me to it with an almost identical post, damn 56k
STANDARD cossie ISCV---
NOTE that the VALVE in a ISCV is INSIDE that lil hole in the bottom, so a teeny lil valve, and the OUTLET is the lil tiny indentation on the side, its less than 1cm square, it can be made bigger, but the valve is still a tiny thing in that hole.
ALS Valve
NOTE theres NO outside casing, the thing is ONE HUGE VALVE that slides up and down on that spindle, its about 1.5" diameter.
ALSO an ALS valve is controlled by an electro magnet..
Yea, exactly the fookin same eh mr expert
EDIT! Mike you bastard to beat me to it with an almost identical post, damn 56k
08-11-2004, 05:04 PM
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P8 is the best factory ECU out of the lot of weber stuff but it was never designed
to run ALS properly and this is why the ISCV output is used sacrificing idle speed.
This was not a problem in motorsport as idle was not important.
However, on a road car proper idle speed control is essential to pass the MOT.
On my car, I have proper idle speed control and ALS all using seperate valves
but then I dont have a P8.
to run ALS properly and this is why the ISCV output is used sacrificing idle speed.
This was not a problem in motorsport as idle was not important.
However, on a road car proper idle speed control is essential to pass the MOT.
On my car, I have proper idle speed control and ALS all using seperate valves
but then I dont have a P8.
08-11-2004, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilM
SECS.....do you have an external holder for the antilag ISCV then? 
I am "borrowing" yours for now... in the name of development
20-11-2004, 03:30 PM
#32
It Wasnt Me!
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh
i want Anti-lag 7psi takes forever to winde up on a T3
7psi takes forever to winde up on a T3
20-11-2004, 05:04 PM
#35
It Wasnt Me!
Originally Posted by Tony Turbo
Hmmmmmmm - Very interesting reading...
Who or where can mod the throttle body?
Who or where can mod the throttle body?
22-11-2004, 08:27 AM
#36
No-one is saying you can't have perfect idle . It is idle speed CONTROL that is the problem . Once warm, mine idles perfectly, but I have to have it idle at 1300rpm, so that when the fans etc come in, it is not labouring the engine, as there is no ISCV to pick the revs back up if it goes too low.
. It is idle speed CONTROL that is the problem . Once warm, mine idles perfectly, but I have to have it idle at 1300rpm, so that when the fans etc come in, it is not labouring the engine, as there is no ISCV to pick the revs back up if it goes too low.
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