zetec turbo
#161
DEYTUKURJERBS
I bet tuners fucking LOVE the fact they have a new scapegoat every time something fucks up- blaming the country the part came from, or pretending it came from there at least
#162
Advanced PassionFord User
he did pay them special attention for 3 weeks prior to them going in the engine he slept with them every night to keep them warm and cosy and still they shit on him
#163
10K+ Poster!!
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big ends get much more stick than mains lots if throw on a big end especially once you get up in the revs. have seen a big end like that once before on a cat 3306 engine in a d6h lgp but that was knocking very bad when it came in for repair and they only rev to 2k flat out.
#164
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Not so much scapegoating for me Stav, a genuine curiousity as to what caused the failure as i'm genuinely scratching my head as to how the rods can have caused the failure...
For the damage to have been done as the photos indicate it - somehow the lubrication film has surely broken down and the bearing shell and crank picked up, fretted, generated a huge amount of heat and spun the bearing shell.
I'm baffled as to how the reversal of that could have happened unless the machining tolerances meant the there wasn't sufficent clearance and the rod was in essence 'pinching' the crank...
In no way a 'dig' at anyone - just a mechanical curiosity...
For the damage to have been done as the photos indicate it - somehow the lubrication film has surely broken down and the bearing shell and crank picked up, fretted, generated a huge amount of heat and spun the bearing shell.
I'm baffled as to how the reversal of that could have happened unless the machining tolerances meant the there wasn't sufficent clearance and the rod was in essence 'pinching' the crank...
In no way a 'dig' at anyone - just a mechanical curiosity...
#165
Advanced PassionFord User
we've got it down to 2 ideas we think one as will thinks pinched crank a bit and got pulled round by crank or two complete opposite and not tight enough and hence spun but can only guess, this thread was started to make every one think twice about saving a few quid on the rods if this might happen as a lot of people are in middle of building zt's and if 1 person is saved from this then it's done it's job
#166
Engine Machinist
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Not so much scapegoating for me Stav, a genuine curiousity as to what caused the failure as i'm genuinely scratching my head as to how the rods can have caused the failure...
For the damage to have been done as the photos indicate it - somehow the lubrication film has surely broken down and the bearing shell and crank picked up, fretted, generated a huge amount of heat and spun the bearing shell.
I'm baffled as to how the reversal of that could have happened unless the machining tolerances meant the there wasn't sufficent clearance and the rod was in essence 'pinching' the crank...
In no way a 'dig' at anyone - just a mechanical curiosity...
For the damage to have been done as the photos indicate it - somehow the lubrication film has surely broken down and the bearing shell and crank picked up, fretted, generated a huge amount of heat and spun the bearing shell.
I'm baffled as to how the reversal of that could have happened unless the machining tolerances meant the there wasn't sufficent clearance and the rod was in essence 'pinching' the crank...
In no way a 'dig' at anyone - just a mechanical curiosity...
i've checked everything on mine, both ends, weight and balance and they're 100% spot on
those big ends have definately been hot though, and that dosen't just happen in an instant
#167
1st to 200 without NOS
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we've got it down to 2 ideas we think one as will thinks pinched crank a bit and got pulled round by crank or two complete opposite and not tight enough and hence spun but can only guess, this thread was started to make every one think twice about saving a few quid on the rods if this might happen as a lot of people are in middle of building zt's and if 1 person is saved from this then it's done it's job
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLASTIGAUGE-pl...d=p3286.c0.m14
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 02-09-2008 at 09:51 PM.
#168
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It maybe adds 2 hours onto an engine build...
#171
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
no it was less and its been payed in full . my speck has had a lot of people having a dig at it on various threads on here so that's why there is no graph or power , people will just pick holes in it . i was told it was held at 5500rpm doing the fueling ect all was fine had been on the rollers for aprx 2hrs then just lost a load of power there was no warning and no noise before hand ,he said to me if it was the pump then main caps would be scored and they are all mint and the turbo didn't die . im not saying its the rod but it was the rod or the bearing .
#172
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We don't have the facilities to do our own machining work though and so it's outsourced and inspected on its return.
#173
1st to 200 without NOS
iTrader: (2)
no it was less and its been payed in full . my speck has had a lot of people having a dig at it on various threads on here so that's why there is no graph or power , people will just pick holes in it . i was told it was held at 5500rpm doing the fueling ect all was fine had been on the rollers for aprx 2hrs then just lost a load of power there was no warning and no noise before hand ,he said to me if it was the pump then main caps would be scored and they are all mint and the turbo didn't die . im not saying its the rod but it was the rod or the bearing .
#175
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
im no engine building expert, but thats not something you can blame on the rods, and bloody suprised its something that happened so fast the damage couldnt have been reduced!
personally I think its a slightly odd engine spec too, lot of money i expect, for not a lot back, but hey, not my car.
personally I think its a slightly odd engine spec too, lot of money i expect, for not a lot back, but hey, not my car.
#178
PassionFord Post Whore!!
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#179
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You're on a T34.48 from what i remember? I'd expect that 290 +/-20bhp to be at the flywheel at 9psi in all honestly...
Turbo won't really be into its high efficiency islands of the map at only 9psi.
Turbo won't really be into its high efficiency islands of the map at only 9psi.
#182
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Thread Starter
i haven't got a fly wheel figer so what would 290hp be at the wheels ??
#184
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rst-g, please remember i spent 3 years researching, testing and developing zetec stuff when i was building my engine - i wanted to build the most powerful, efficient and reliable engine i could.
I've worked on plenty of cars with similar sized turbos to a T34.48 and at 9psi you can physically feel them not working efficiently, i haven't seen a compressor map to compare that against, but i can assure you, they feel lethargic and not particularly spritely. Depends on this engines efficiency, i could be wrong!
#185
10K+ Poster!!
It's been mapped by Dave Walker at Emerald in Norwich and had problems with boost (possible actuator problem)
at 9psi it made
Torque: 223.4lbft @ 3850rpm
BHP: 202.9BHP @ 5608
not sure if theyre flywheel or wheel figures
#186
Colossal Pervert
I've worked on plenty of cars with similar sized turbos to a T34.48 and at 9psi you can physically feel them not working efficiently, i haven't seen a compressor map to compare that against, but i can assure you, they feel lethargic and not particularly spritely. Depends on this engines efficiency, i could be wrong!
The red trace and final point are typical of a T34 on a 2L zetec producing 300bhp, standard head, standard cams. The lower 'splodge' is the suggest "290bhp @ 9psi", which frankly I can never see happening, not unless it's at 8000rpm on a mega head!
#188
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Remember this is not a YB...
And it's got a compression ratio in the mid 9's, a far superior flowing head and in the turbo world - very lairy cams...
I could be very wrong
But so far i think i'm the only person who's actually posted up a guess
And it's got a compression ratio in the mid 9's, a far superior flowing head and in the turbo world - very lairy cams...
I could be very wrong
But so far i think i'm the only person who's actually posted up a guess
#189
Advanced PassionFord User
scooby your right yb's don't make that because people tend to throw big boost through them and very rarely do anything to the head or ports till over 400hp is wanted where as the st170 head is so much better at moving the air it's easy to get big figures on low boost and after being in the little fiesta with this engine in it at low boost it drives and pulls like a train
#190
10K+ Poster!!
well i posted up what my mates 2ltr zetec made at 9psi, so that makes 2 of us, i suppose i didnt guess though what you think of those figures Will?
#191
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
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Will, I agree with you more or less on your guess if its holding onto the revs and specced for it.
N/A 2.0 engines make that much power at 0psi, so if its a very efficient setup, doing so on 9psi isnt hard at 8000rpm+
Only thing that I doubt, is it doing it on a .48 housing TBH
N/A 2.0 engines make that much power at 0psi, so if its a very efficient setup, doing so on 9psi isnt hard at 8000rpm+
Only thing that I doubt, is it doing it on a .48 housing TBH
#192
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
iTrader: (3)
we've got it down to 2 ideas we think one as will thinks pinched crank a bit and got pulled round by crank or two complete opposite and not tight enough and hence spun but can only guess, this thread was started to make every one think twice about saving a few quid on the rods if this might happen as a lot of people are in middle of building zt's and if 1 person is saved from this then it's done it's job
#194
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
iTrader: (3)
My mates 2ltr zetec turbo engine built using Eagle rods and JE pistons C/R 8.3:1, standard head & cams, tubular exhaust manifold, rover inlet, cosworth t3 turbo, it has done 1100 miles so far and touch wood has been ok.
It's been mapped by Dave Walker at Emerald in Norwich and had problems with boost (possible actuator problem)
at 9psi it made
Torque: 223.4lbft @ 3850rpm
BHP: 202.9BHP @ 5608
not sure if theyre flywheel or wheel figures
It's been mapped by Dave Walker at Emerald in Norwich and had problems with boost (possible actuator problem)
at 9psi it made
Torque: 223.4lbft @ 3850rpm
BHP: 202.9BHP @ 5608
not sure if theyre flywheel or wheel figures
He's on a T3, it would hold onto the power a lot longer on a T34 potentially, also I bet he wasnt on a very modified head or a lairy set of cams like Will is discussing.
The torque he made though, just to put things in perspective, is sufficient for 350bhp @ 8000rpm
So to make what will is saying, you can still allow for the fact the VE drops at revs increases and still consider it reasonable on 9psi
#196
Colossal Pervert
You really cant compare..
#197
PassionFord Post Troll
Having read this thread i must say that i agree with Chip and Martin.
If that was my engine i would be requesting Jamsport to rebuild it FOC with new eagle rods.
If they refused i would get an independant engineers report and take action in the small claims court.
I am certain any engineer worth their salt will report that the problem wasn't caused by the rods and was either:
- Oil pump failure
- Oil contamination or oil passage way blockage (probably swarf)
- Incorrect tolerances on big end bearings
- Bearings damaged during build
If that was my engine i would be requesting Jamsport to rebuild it FOC with new eagle rods.
If they refused i would get an independant engineers report and take action in the small claims court.
I am certain any engineer worth their salt will report that the problem wasn't caused by the rods and was either:
- Oil pump failure
- Oil contamination or oil passage way blockage (probably swarf)
- Incorrect tolerances on big end bearings
- Bearings damaged during build
#198
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
iTrader: (3)
It does it at more like -3psi or 12psi absolute
So its making about 14bhp per psi effectively.
So at 24psi absolute if it kept the same efficiency it would be making 340bhp, now obviously it will NOT do that, but 290 is perfectly reasonable IMHO
My nova engine makes around 300bhp at 10psi no drama.
#199
DEYTUKURJERBS
As in its a fucking lot of money just to get 300bhp.
Smallish turbo, mega low boost, quite serious head, wild cams, high comp, aftermarket managment, custom manifolds, etc etc.
Strange way of going about things to me.
Smallish turbo, mega low boost, quite serious head, wild cams, high comp, aftermarket managment, custom manifolds, etc etc.
Strange way of going about things to me.
Last edited by Stavros; 03-09-2008 at 12:30 PM.