Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Right ive always thought if u passed your test after 1997 you only have a cat B driving licence. which only entitles you to tow a 750 kg trailer

if u passed before 1997 you have B+E, which means u ok to have a mass of about 8 tons i think.

anyway, since finding out this "rule" i havnt towed anything over 750 (honest) for fear of been done buy the police.

ive been on a different thread with regards to some one whos looking to buy a 4x4 for towing, and i raised the "750 law" in there and some one has said im wrong

here the basic flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Ivatt

also make sure ur mate passed his driving test before 1997, or he legally cant tow anything over 750 kg!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebit
Yes you can



http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...es/DG_10013073

Quote:
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.




NO YOU CAN'T - read your own link again! New drivers, passing their test after 1997, do not have B+E entitlement, and therefore can not tow cars / boats or trailers weighing over 750kgs

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM

Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

Small holiday trailers with a tent and cooker in yes, car trailers, boats etc, NO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James
oh wow, never knew about that!


Sorry James, your newly learned info was actually incorrect..., best forget it!
__________________


SiBView Public ProfileSend a private message to SiBSend email to SiBFind More Posts by SiBAdd SiB to Your Buddy List
Yesterday, 11:52 PM #30 ebit
Who?

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 48




It also says

Quote:
a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
and

Quote:
the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
If the MAM doesn't exceed 3.5 tonnes you can drive in on a cat B license.

Quote:
If you passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 you're limited to vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass towing a trailer up to 750 kgs, or a vehicle and trailer combination up to 3.5 tonnes MAM providing the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. You'll need to pass an additional driving test in B+E if you wish to tow a caravan or trailer combination which exceeds these weight limits.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...les/DG_4022521

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiB
Sorry James, your newly learned info was actually incorrect..., best forget it!

No it's correct.



So forgive me if im reading this wrong but it looks like i CAN tow a trailer as long as the complete vehicle and trailer unit weigh in at 3.5 ton or less?

this is very important to me as i often need to tow things in my line of work and it would save me a lot of hastle if i knew i was actually safe to tow 3.5.

rickbartlett

u cant tow a trailer at all if u passed after 1997.and u lose grandfathers rites to drive a7.5 tonne lorry aswell after this date.my boss had to pay over 600quid 4 my trailer test and licence.its a rip off

focusv8

It's not as simple as that as it shows above.

Yes there are combinations of vehicles you can drive with a trailer.

.

James

bttt, i'd love to know this for sure aswell as often have the need to tow, but get someone else to do it.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

on average how much does a twin axle braked trailer weigh?

and how much does a totally stipped 3dr weigh lol? its got most of the enigne in, and a cage. no fluids etc

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

exactly why i never bothered to take the test. up untill 2007 it was ok, as the police gave a sort of 10 year grace, and ud just get a slap on the wrists. but now its 11 years/2008 u can be done for all sorts from dangerous driving and unsafe load etc, points and fine etc

the reason i posted this is im now at a stage with my business where i could really do with pulling heavier loads. ie mainly a mini digger.

stupid thing is the pay load in my pick up buck is 1.3 tons. and with an unladen truck i can only pull (according to the rules?) 1.2 ton.

Im gna get the PA to look into this, as im sure there are a lot of us who need a straight answer!

SIMPLE???

they couldnt have worded it anymore stupidly.

all i want to know is can i pull a tralier up to 1.2 tons (my landy weighing 2.3, bringing me to 3.5 ton)?


twin axle braked. something like an ifor williams. about 1.2 ton
TOTALY striped 3 dr shell prob 1/2 ton?

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Right

Ive phoned them up

basically if my vehicle is unladen (2.3 tons) i can tow a trailer of 1.2 tons.
which brings me to 3.5 tons all in which is the max limit.

how ever if i had 1.2 tons of say sand in the back of my truck. making the truck weigh in the 3.5 tons, i can still legally tow a trailer behind me as long as it weighs under 750kg. bringing my total weight to 4.25 ton.

so basically with nothing in my truck/unladen. i can tow anything i want as long as im not over 3,5 ton in total!

sort of good news really, as ive been fannying around the last year when there was no need to!

Fil

Jumping on the post here.

but im an after 97 driver, no real towing rights!



How much does it cost to do the test and get it added?

Where / who do you do tests with?

focusv8

So is Lee, judging by the question.
You can tow to the same limits.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...les/DG_4022521

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ide/DG_4022530

,

Luca

iTrader: (2)

Excellant info Lee..


One thing just so i can clarify all the above... Did you pass your test after Jan 97?

Ed1

i have asked about 5 traffic cops and they havent had a clue so i wudnt worry about it to much coz if they dont know how are we spoze to know, one even got his little book out and said ill get back to you, but never did!

i towed a twin axel behind my van with no problems loads of times!

rickbartlett

yeah i want to no 2 cos i was told i needed the trailer test to tow any trailer no matter wot weight it is????? i passed after 97 and had 2 pay 600quid 4 a poxy trailer test.

James

excellent info agreed!

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

its a home made trailer ive been using, deffo cant weight any more than 500kg i reckon

but anyway, looks like its illegal for me to tow with the 3dr on in my 406 estate.


oh well, its only illegal if you get caught

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

yes . i passed after 1997. so you have the same rights as me

basically the best situation u can have as a towing vehicle which weighs 1.8 tons, which then enables you to pull a trailer weighing 1.7 ton.

sadly as my beast is 2.3 ton, i can only pull a 1.2 ton trailer! (which seems daft as my 110 landrover is far more capable/safer than a car which weight less but is then allowed to pull more relative weight!)


basically to clarify again, if u passed AFTER 1997.

your total mass weight (car & trailer) can be up to 3.5 ton

AS LONG AS THE TRAILER WEIGHS LESS THEN THE CAR.

(ie u cant pull a 2 ton trailer if the car only weighs 1.5 ton)

if u passed before 1997 u can drive anything up to 8.25 ton i think. i.e a 7.5 ton truck with a 750 trailer. Any more and u need an HGV licence

dojj

iTrader: (3)

that's probably because the trailer and car exceeds the weight you can tow with the car, rather than it being a pernickity copper looking to part you with some of your hard earned cash

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

how much does a 406 estate weigh?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/...del=660&page=2

look through there to find it, i can't be arsed

marky_g

tis true i work with caravans i cant legaly town anything on my licience we had a big meeting on it a while ago you can only have up to 3.5 tons rigid

but a towing corse is not very expensive think there about 250, and that covers you to to 2000kg there aint many caravans with a max pay loads like that not in 30footers

marky_g

panels like rizla papers rely rely not ideal for towing

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

heaviest 406 2.0 lx is 1370kgs, the tow bar weighs a fair bit too, and its full of the wifes junk, so probably nearer 1500kg.

i reckon im ok with that

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

i dont smoke mate, and tow the car on a trailer, not fag papers lol

i know its not the best car to use, but it does the job

pisses through petrol tho with another car being dragged along lol

dojj

iTrader: (3)

best i had towing a trailer with nothing on it was 28 mpg on the motorway doing silly 55 mph speeds
best i did with the estate on the back was 18 mpg

in the mondeo auto estate, and with the sierra on the back, i was going up hills in second at 35 mph too

fraser9764

iTrader: (3)

I rung up about this a while ago, same answer.
My pickup weighs 1700kg, trailer ~5-600 (home made jobby) plus a toolbox and a couple of bulkier spares (put the rest in other cars for this reason) and the pug ~900
i put the lot (minus the toolbox and spares and with a full tank of gogo juice) on the weighbridge in work and it came in at 3.2 ton so i should be fine happy days

fraser9764

iTrader: (3)

try the small narrow very steep roads round buxton over the pennines in the tranny!! one of them was a sharp left hander at the bottom onto the mother of all mountains!, At the steepest bit i had to drop to first!!

On the economy, last time out with trailer going down to sweet lamb near newtown, wales, sat at about 55-60 nearly all the way i got 32 mpg!! i only get 34 normally! was a nice easy run though

markk

iTrader: (2)

towing a car trailer and a car with another car like the peugeot is illegal, your way over gross train weight, and its totally unsafe as you dont have the braking force or the weight to stop yourself and the car on the trailer.

the police dont really give a toss, or know the law regarding construction and use, its the ministry who WILL rape you, a friend of mine 150kgs over the GTW, £2k fine and had to have the lot recovered away, not allowed to drive it.
If that DVLA have told you tat you can tow a trailer if you passed after 1997, then why did they introduce a trailer test and for whom ?

Having spent many year on commercials having to know about train weights and MAM's was critical, hence having a LGV licence resolved any issues for me.

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Bolloks. if his car weighs 1500, then acording to the rule he can legally tow a trailer weighing say 1450. As it weighs less than the car, and the two together are under 3500.
It may be stupid, cos my landy which is safe to pull a 3.5 ton trailer, with my licence, under the same rules as him i can only tow 1200. bloody stupid but thats what the rules state.
(id recommend that he weighs the 406 etc tho just to be sure and get a printed ticket of proof)

err... thats why trailers over 750 kg legally need to have brakes. the ones on my ifor are so good u can even feel them slow the landy down!!

True the police may not look on diy trailers kindly, especially as there as they are not plated. but again as long as u know that ur weights are correct and its brakes. theres nothing they can do.

In my opinion its wont be long before they introduce an MOT style test for trailers, like they have in holland and belgium. Would certainly take some unsafe shite of the roads.

Car licences held before 1 January 1997

All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.
Drivers who hold subcategory C1+E - limited to 8.25 tonnes MAM, may apply for provisional entitlement to the new subcategory C1+E, in order to take and pass the test which will increase their combined vehicle and trailer entitlement to 12 tonnes MAM. It is not necessary to gain subcategory C1 entitlement first but drivers have to meet higher medical standards, and pass both the category C theory test and the subcategory C1+E practical test.

Basically to stop a 17 year old from driving a 8.25 ton minibus/truck. and to stop me pulling a 3.5 ton trailer behind my landy which would then weigh in at 5.8 tons. (of course ive never done anything like that before)

markk

iTrader: (2)

the GT weights on a peugeot 406 will not be enough to tow a sierra and a suitable trailer for that vehicle - trust me.

and do not be confused with land/range rover, if you look at the classification for these vehicles they are classes as 'dual purpose' and are the only vehicles that can tow more than there own weight legally, no other vehicles (cars or light comms) can do that.

so like i said, (and thanks for the quote) after 1997 no trailor allowance till you have passed your test WITH TRAILER.

ebit

It clearly says

You can tow upto that limit if you passed after 1 January 97 without passing a towing test.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

ok im really confused now

the trailer i use IS braked, and DOESNT have a winch, so that saves some weight.

where the hell can i get the 406 weighed, and next time i have the car and trailer on ill see about getting the lot weighed. and do you have to pay to have it all weighed?

i have used this combo several times now, and done about 2k miles while towing in total i guess and never had a problem with the brakes etc.

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

I dont know what ur basing ur information on. I actually spoke to someone at the DVLA, and asked them to clarifiy exactly what the rules are.
And a post 1997 driver, can have a mass weight of vehicle and trailer of up to 3.5 tons.

if his 406 is 1500kg, then hes allowed to pull a trailer weighing 1450kg.
yes in practice it may not be a good combination, but in theory and keeping with in the rules he can pull 1450.

I dont know what u mean buy rangerover? i have a landrover 110. it is a hi capacity pickup, and is classed as an agricultural vehicle.

if u have a local quarry/ sand pit near you or a scrap yard. just call them up and ask if u can use their weigh bridge. Most will be happy if u give them a drink for their troubles.
if u can go to a quarry, they will be able to print out a pink ticket, showing the weight and it will also have the vehicle reg on it! i.e evidence of weight.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

lee, cheers mate. i think there may be one at the recycling place

ill pop over and have a look when i can get chance

dannyblackpool

the towing car itself also has a weight limit, nothing to do with driving licences, so the car on trailer is heavier than the max towing weigh of the vehicle so illegal to tow no ,matter what licence you have, think that what markk is trying to say. Basically got to fing a car which has a high tow weight but is light enough to allow enough weight for the towed weight, if you get me...

dannyblackpool

right below is the specs of a escort 75 van......

Gross Payload(Kg): 750
Gross Vehicle Weight(Kg): 1900
Kerb Weight(Kg): 1150
Towing Limit(Kg): 465
Tank(litres/gallons): 55/12.1


So the van weighing in at 1900kg doesnt leave 1600kg to tow as by manufacturer spec it can only tow a max of 465kg so is illegal to tow more...

dannyblackpool

406 In production Kerb Weight KG 85% Weight KG Max Ball Weight KG Max Towing Weight KG
1.8 2000 1315 1117 80 1300
2.0 2000 1340 1147 80 1500
2.0 Auto 2000 1445 1228 80 1500
2.2 2000 1445 1228 80 1500
3.0 V6 2000 1455 1300 80 1500
3.0 V6 Auto 2000 1550 1317 80 1500
2.0 HDi 90 2000 1330 1130 80 1500
2.0 HDi 110 2000 1410 1198 80 1500
2.2 HDi 2000 1410 1198 80 1500

markk

iTrader: (2)

my info is not from an office worker at the DVLA pal, just because they work there does not make them know the laws for construction and use, and i did say "land/rangerover" same company mate, and if you speak to the correct people, i.e th epeople who govern construction and use, you may then understand. to be honoust pal, i dont give two fuck's if you get caught, it wont be me paying the fine and removal, it will be you, ive offered the advise, if you choose not to follow it up, the thats ok, i will still sleep tonight.


so here like i said, and Danny has maybe made simpler to understand, take your average 2.0l peugoet 406, do the sums and see if you can tow it legal, nevermind the licence

dojj

iTrader: (3)

danny's figures show that all 406's weigh 2000kgs?

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

i think the 2000 may refer to the year dojj lol.

its a 2.0l glx, so going from that table, second line down says it weighs 1340kgs?

and does the max towing weight of 1500 include the weight of the car? meaning it can tow 160kgs? :s

really lost now....

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

i wont get caught tho, as im not doing anything wrong. My Landrover is 2300. which leaves me 1200 to tow.

that fits in with the dvla mam 3.5t rules and also manurefacture rules as my truck is legally plated to pull a 3.5 ton trailer.

so wheres your advise?