12v v6 to 24v can it be done ?
20-07-2008, 01:30 PM
#1
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12v v6 to 24v can it be done ?
im considering a 24v conversion and was wondering if you can fit the 24v heads to the 2.9 12 v engine ,dont want to change the block as it has been bored out to 3.7 litre
anybody had any experience?
anybody had any experience?
20-07-2008, 02:04 PM
#3
well the block is the essentially same so there is no reason why it can't be done, you may need to do some mods to the bottom end tho, the camshaft on the 12v is easily removed and then fit the "dummy shaft" from the 24v to drive the oil pump, I'm sure the bottom end on a 24v is "stronger" than the 12v so you may need to check it out..
steve
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20-07-2008, 08:52 PM
#10
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3.7 should have longer throw crank. The 24V chain drive requires the 24V crank.
Also the cam followers would all need to be plugged and check the oilways as the 12V has more that are drilled in the block that also need to be plugged.
20-07-2008, 09:00 PM
#12
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i know about the oil ways , but does the chain gear not fit onto the 3.7 crank?
20-07-2008, 09:03 PM
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20-07-2008, 10:27 PM
#15
how are you going to stop the oil from pissing through the holes left in the block from the holes for the followers?
the blocks are stronger cast, not just selected as the webbing on the mains is thicker
otherwise they are the same and you can bolt everything onto them
the blocks are stronger cast, not just selected as the webbing on the mains is thicker
otherwise they are the same and you can bolt everything onto them
21-07-2008, 06:51 AM
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As for using the 12v bottom end with the 24v heads errr not sure on that one.
Lets ask the simple question what power does your modded 12v put out and what power do you want to get to?
Last edited by mark_24v_wiring; 21-07-2008 at 06:52 AM.
21-07-2008, 08:44 AM
#20
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you can get them 
just not from ford
r500 pop over here http://poweredbyford.smfforfree4.com/index.php
will be loads of 24v info up soon
just not from fordr500 pop over here http://poweredbyford.smfforfree4.com/index.php
will be loads of 24v info up soon
21-07-2008, 08:51 AM
#21
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21-07-2008, 09:12 AM
#24
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21-07-2008, 09:14 AM
#25
jims tt was good for a 13 second 1/4 running 4 psi with fucked turbo's
i should know as mine did a 12 second 1/4 and made in excess of 350 bhp and 390 lb/ft
ok, it did 1 mpg with the foot down and 14 mpg on a cruise, but it was a proper beast that was blowing up gearboxes way back in 2000
i should know as mine did a 12 second 1/4 and made in excess of 350 bhp and 390 lb/ft
ok, it did 1 mpg with the foot down and 14 mpg on a cruise, but it was a proper beast that was blowing up gearboxes way back in 2000
21-07-2008, 01:57 PM
#28
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steve, when turbotechnics did it the only conversion they offered on the standard (ish) engine was the 225bhp conversion. the 250bhp, 280bhp and 300bhp conversion required quite a bit of engine work. the cost involved with doing this would be significant even on a billy bodge up setup.
a 24v conversion can be easily done peanuts and will acheive approx 200bhp
my 24v was similar power-wise to my TT225 12v twin turbo. also rememebr the standard 12v engine only develops 150bhp!
as dojj said, my first twin turbo (which was unkown power, but probably 250-300ish) was pretty damn nippy, but was nowhere near safe/reliable
a 24v conversion can be easily done peanuts and will acheive approx 200bhp
my 24v was similar power-wise to my TT225 12v twin turbo. also rememebr the standard 12v engine only develops 150bhp!
as dojj said, my first twin turbo (which was unkown power, but probably 250-300ish) was pretty damn nippy, but was nowhere near safe/reliable
Last edited by Jim Galbally; 21-07-2008 at 01:58 PM.
21-07-2008, 02:41 PM
#30
DEYTUKURJERBS
steve, when turbotechnics did it the only conversion they offered on the standard (ish) engine was the 225bhp conversion. the 250bhp, 280bhp and 300bhp conversion required quite a bit of engine work. the cost involved with doing this would be significant even on a billy bodge up setup.
a 24v conversion can be easily done peanuts and will acheive approx 200bhp
my 24v was similar power-wise to my TT225 12v twin turbo. also rememebr the standard 12v engine only develops 150bhp!
as dojj said, my first twin turbo (which was unkown power, but probably 250-300ish) was pretty damn nippy, but was nowhere near safe/reliable
a 24v conversion can be easily done peanuts and will acheive approx 200bhp
my 24v was similar power-wise to my TT225 12v twin turbo. also rememebr the standard 12v engine only develops 150bhp!
as dojj said, my first twin turbo (which was unkown power, but probably 250-300ish) was pretty damn nippy, but was nowhere near safe/reliable
And just because they did that, dont mean better cant be done.
21-07-2008, 04:34 PM
#32
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yeah but steve if youre gonan spend money on it then you might aswell start out with the 24v as it's better than the 12v in every respect.
hell if youre gonan spend money, sell the thing and buy a better car/engine
(i learnt that too late )
hell if youre gonan spend money, sell the thing and buy a better car/engine
(i learnt that too late )
21-07-2008, 04:40 PM
#33
you would then use the bob crank and mains and ends
conrods and pistons would need to be custom made
then there is the matter of compression being relieved from the heads to make the burn better, due to the poor design of the originals and the ability to make them better
you would also need to get manifolds up to the job of fitting in between the engine and inner wings to support the turbo's you would need to make the power over and above a T3
rs500 sized coolers have been made to fit not a problem and the pipework would need to be custom made as most of it is only fit for scrap now as there is so much of it and it's SO convoluted
and that would mean you have a 12V engine that would still be heavy and shite on fuel
for less money you can have the 24V conversion with turbo's and less boost and less hassle
21-07-2008, 04:53 PM
#34
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hey , im not going the turbo route , ive got a set of 6 jenvey throttle bodies to go on it , im looking for a set of big valve 24v heads tho
looking for around 350/400bhp n/a
should be fun !
looking for around 350/400bhp n/a
should be fun !
21-07-2008, 04:56 PM
#35
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400bhp N/A from a cologne v6?
sorry mate i think youre dreaming unfortunately. you'll be lucky to hit 300 even after spending a fortune.
the thing that makes these engines SO good is their value for money and ease of installation. for hardly any money you can drop one in and get an instant 200+bhp if your chasing figures you'll have to spend SERIOUS cash, and the engine just doesnt deliver. it's not designed for it 
you are FAR better off with a v8. you'll hit those figures wish ease with MORE torque, more driveability, and it'll cost you a hell of a lot less money.
sorry mate i think youre dreaming unfortunately. you'll be lucky to hit 300 even after spending a fortune.
the thing that makes these engines SO good is their value for money and ease of installation. for hardly any money you can drop one in and get an instant 200+bhp
if your chasing figures you'll have to spend SERIOUS cash, and the engine just doesnt deliver. it's not designed for it you are FAR better off with a v8. you'll hit those figures wish ease with MORE torque, more driveability, and it'll cost you a hell of a lot less money.
21-07-2008, 05:28 PM
#37
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right, the 24v as the 12v cannot rev, the 24v is better due to the webbing, but still shit. If you hold it over 7000 rpm to long you will do the crank in as the block flexes and does the bearings in. if your going N/A then you need revs
Right there was a racing version of the 24v called the FBE, same block same pistons same fooking everything, but it used TB's, BOB spec cams and nice zorst manifould, on MBE managment. This is the main differance it was dry sumped and the mains bolts came though the dry sump, this stoped the flexing.
There was a sierra in the thunder saloons which was getting 400bhp N/A, but he would be lucky to finish a race as 9 out 10 times the block cracked.
The FBE engines were doing 300 bhp all day long though
Right there was a racing version of the 24v called the FBE, same block same pistons same fooking everything, but it used TB's, BOB spec cams and nice zorst manifould, on MBE managment. This is the main differance it was dry sumped and the mains bolts came though the dry sump, this stoped the flexing.
There was a sierra in the thunder saloons which was getting 400bhp N/A, but he would be lucky to finish a race as 9 out 10 times the block cracked.
The FBE engines were doing 300 bhp all day long though
21-07-2008, 05:35 PM
#38
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r500 i ran a 24v sierra for a few years and spent a bit of cash on that car, so i speak from experience.
i love the 24v, but i understand its limitations.
if you add up how much it will cost you for a well specced 24v then see what you can get from other engines for the same money (ie YBs, V8s etc.) it just doesnt make sense to go with the cologne
i love the 24v, but i understand its limitations.
if you add up how much it will cost you for a well specced 24v then see what you can get from other engines for the same money (ie YBs, V8s etc.) it just doesnt make sense to go with the cologne
21-07-2008, 06:45 PM
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If you want 300bhp then you need to do loads to the 24v engine not just slap on a set of tb's
As already said you will need rev's to make the power and Jim will tell you what happens when you change the rev limiter on a 24v engine without making the mods to stiffen the block.
There is some good information in this thread by everyone but at the end of the day its your car your choice, if it was me i would use a 24v BOA with BOB cams stick the tb's on and get a webbing made for the bottom end then you can raise the rev limit and see how you go but i doubt it will be much past 250bhp.
In std form the 24v will make about 210bhp (no cats pas or air con) and will last a long time start mucking about with it and it costs loads for not a lot of gain again Jim will tell you this from all his playing with the 24v and yes i was gutted for him as i did some of the work.
As already said you will need rev's to make the power and Jim will tell you what happens when you change the rev limiter on a 24v engine without making the mods to stiffen the block.
There is some good information in this thread by everyone but at the end of the day its your car your choice, if it was me i would use a 24v BOA with BOB cams stick the tb's on and get a webbing made for the bottom end then you can raise the rev limit and see how you go but i doubt it will be much past 250bhp.
In std form the 24v will make about 210bhp (no cats pas or air con) and will last a long time start mucking about with it and it costs loads for not a lot of gain again Jim will tell you this from all his playing with the 24v and yes i was gutted for him as i did some of the work.