Jim Galbally

well, after attending court to plead guilty to an SP30 yesterday adn getting handed a whoping £235 in fines+costs and 4 points!!!!!! i have realised that the legal system SUCKS, i have no idea how court proceedings work, and that i need a lawyer to help me thru this one

firstly, the court date is on the 29th, same day as my grandad's funeral!!!! (so need to get that sorted!)

woulda gladly taken the 3 points and 60quid fine if i knew i'd done it, but had no reccolection of comitting the offence, and when i asked them to send me the evidence they sent me a summons instead

didnt realise i jumped the red, but the pictures they have NOW sent me show me i clearly did pisser really as i donly did it as there was an ambulace behind me with the blue lights on so wanted to make sure the road was clear for him (which ive looked it up and its still illegal to do even if an emergency veichle needs to get past)

basically i just need to beg them not to give me MORE than 3pts, which they are probably gonna do one of those "we'll punish you more if you dont just sign the form" kinda deals

am i entitled to legal aid even if i'm not on benefits etc.? does it work like it does in the US where everyone's entitled toa court appointed lawyer?

kjc300

iTrader: (1)

Is the ambulance in the second pic Jim? (they still take 2 photo's dont they?) As you'd need some evidence that there was an ambulance to persue that one.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

this could be bad news for s1rst!

percybigun

i wouldnt worry so much about the points, i've seen details of cases where people have only got 3 points in court (and a fine obviously) for going over 100mph.

if you state your case they cant really give you more than 3 points for it, you have mitigating circumstances, and 3 points is the industry standard for that offence.

when i was in court for speeding, the magistrate and some woman next to him, looked up the standard fine and points on a "chart", and give me less than the standard because i give them a load of sob story.

Jim Galbally

i think i'm fucked with the ambulance thing anyway, not like i can prove anything. i have a witness who was in the car with me, but still it's not actually an excuse to do it. theyre gonna do me nomatter what, and i now know from experience, i'm gonna be in the shit.

cant beleive i got 4 points for speeding in euston underpass FFS.

Lee_R21Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Any more points mate & you wont need to get your engine changed in your car as there wont be any point as you wont be able to drive it!!!

foreigneRS

not legal aid, no. but you can make use of the duty solicitor in court on that day.

good luck, but i would have just taken the punishment. in fact i did earlier this year i got a NIP for speeding in a 30 zone at 58mph when i did not know that i had done it (and was fairly sure that i had not). but sometimes it's better to just take the 3 points and £60 rather than try to fight it and end up with more

T3ORA

iTrader: (1)

picky775

just say you sneezed at the same time the lights changed witch led you to press the throttle i heard that excuse a while back from a woman and she got away with it

BM08

so if an emergency vehicle is coming behind you, you cant move out of the way if it means going forwards into the "no zone" box etc? thats just fcking stupid because most people move out of the way on instinct ive heard a story where an ambulance pushed a car out of the way in traffic and just carried on

C4llyT

Could cause an accident by getting out the way, so defeating the object.
Same as people driving up on kerbs, someone walks out a drive and that's another ambulance needed.

I think in court just need to state your case - maybe there's a log of ambulance on a call at that time that would have used that road from info they have.
Maybe worth looking into.

Jim Galbally

VW, that is correct

basically, i now knowi have commited a crime. unfortunately at the time they sent me the offer of fixed penalty, i didn't. hence why i was reluctant to sign it and asked for proof.

so how do you get a duty solicotor then? i'm thinking i might have to plead guilty by post anyway, as trying to move the date for this funeral is no doubt going to not work properly

DanCossie

iTrader: (1)

There will be a duty solicitor in the court Jim just ask the reception when you get there. Good Luck mate.

tonyk

You need to write a letter to the court asking for your case to be adjourned so you can attend the funeral. If you can still plead guilty by post then you should not need to attend court anyway.

RS LOZWORTH

Hi,

In court you want to be asking thinks like, have the traffic signals been inspected by the local traffic signal maintenance contractor, this will include information about the reliability of the signals any on going issues with the lights- this could help because if the lights are not functioning correctly it will void the ticket, you also want the speak to the local area traffic control center and ask if there were any faults passed at that time- will aslo void ticket, the camera will not work if travelling at less than 12mph so ask if the red light loops have been calibrated within 12 months, ive just written all that very quick so u might not understand what im saying so pm me if you want any info (i fix traffic lights)

Loz

Jim Galbally

cheers, but im gonna plead guilty anyway so not much point with that. i'll try n send some letters to ask tho, even if i dont get any responses, probably looks good.

anyone know how this duty solicotor thing works?

percybigun

your better off asking advice on somewhere like www.pepipoo.com , there is some very good motoring-law legal eagles on there. but beware there is some complete pompous wankers, just ignore them.

when i was done for speeding and got a court summons, i was told that i am better off attending the court and not just pleading guilty by post (they think you are taking it more seriously if you attend). wear a suit, be polite and remorseful, and also i was told that if i hired some fancy brief, alot of magistrates get put off by this and may give a worse sentence. so i represented myself, and it worked out fine.

i wouldnt worry so much mate, i dont see how they can give you more than 3 points when its only a "3-pointable" offence. its like going in court for burgalry and say the standard sentence is 1 year in prison, they cant give the burglar 2 or 3 years just for the hell of it!

COMEDY DAN

YOu cant have FREE legal aid, but you will have access to the duty solicitors on the day.

Get to court half an hour early and ask at the reception to see a duty solicitor.

They will take you to a side room and make notes on your case based on your events.

They will be able to put your case across to the judge in a pleading fasion and using legal jargon that may just get you a slap on the wrist.

To be fair, the solicitor can ask for an adjurnment which will be granted while you get yourself sorted and your duty solicitor can put a case together for you in your best interests.

Good Luck Mate.

Jim Galbally

percy, it's not a 3 pointable offence tho, its a 6 pointable offence, they just offer 3 points via the FIXED PENALTY SCHEME

neilm

If you are a member of the RAC or AA I believe they will provide legal representation for you.

I had this in a speeding case years ago as I was doing over 100 and had to go to court.. Spoke to the RAC, they said they'd appoint a solicitor, which they did, a charming young thing, problem was the silly bint didnt pick up on the fact that the CPS said I was on the north bound carriage way of the M1 when I was actually on the South Bound so if they couldnt get the basic direction right how could they possibly get the speed correct. But hey ho she was just a junior and probably didnt have much court experience.


How far through the light are you ?

My defence would be...

'Can the prosecution tell me the stopping distance of a car travelling at 30mph ?'

The reply should be '60 feet'

'If I was 30 feet from the lights when they changed, travelling at 30mph, could I be expected to stop in the required distance ?'

The answer will probably be some crap about emergency stop as if a child had stepped into the road

'As the court can clearly see by the subsequent pictures there was an Ambulance, on a blue light shout, I took the split second decision, not to perform an emergency stop as this would have almost certainly resulted in an accident involving the emergency vehicle and instead could see the junction was clear and decided to cross the red light to enable the ambulance to pass safely and be on its way.

As you can see from my previous driving record, I have no history of jumping lights and this was purely a one off based on the circumstances involving the ambulance.

After all how would I or any of us felt had I braked hard to stop at the lights, the ambulance had hit me and not made it to the call and someone, perhaps a small child, had died.'

I rest my case

COMEDY DAN

"'Can the prosecution tell me the stopping distance of a car travelling at 30mph ?'

The reply should be '60 feet'

'If I was 30 feet from the lights when they changed, travelling at 30mph, could I be expected to stop in the required distance ?'

The answer will probably be some crap about emergency stop as if a child had stepped into the road

'As the court can clearly see by the subsequent pictures there was an Ambulance, on a blue light shout, I took the split second decision, not to perform an emergency stop as this would have almost certainly resulted in an accident involving the emergency vehicle and instead could see the junction was clear and decided to cross the red light to enable the ambulance to pass safely and be on its way.

As you can see from my previous driving record, I have no history of jumping lights and this was purely a one off based on the circumstances involving the ambulance"


Great words.

Jim Galbally

na, ambulance was quite far back. not on the pics, no way can i get any proof. will get passenger to write a witness statement for what it's worth tho.

RC4

your bullshitting about the ambulance arent you?

CWA

I've heard this one too.. i don't think whether you press the throttle or not - but the general fact that you can sneeze has made the crime excusable in court on a few occasions..

something like because it is the only time you are allowed to have your eyes shut (even if it is just for a split second) because really, you can't help it. i'm not sure whether it is actually officially legal or not.. but i'm sure i've heard it is..

anyway good luck with it bud.. pretty rubbish situation you're in

CWA

vroomtshh

Whatever you do, dont go into court and spout bollocks like that. You'll end up in jail being gang raped. The court would take the view that if you are 30feet from the traffic light, then you should in no way be doing 30mph. I could write a long description but I cant be arsed. Its all to do with driving to suit the conditions. And One condition is that at a hazard (i.e.) traffic lights, you should be approaching with caution

dojj

iTrader: (3)

timrud is the guy to speak to

he does this sort of thing for a living



allegedly

dojj

iTrader: (3)

that's not quite the way i imagined it would read

he does the legal side of things at a court i'm lead to believe, not jumping red lights and getting away with ambulances etc

Chris Honeywell

Thats exactly right they would say to you that you should be anticipating the light changing so should be slowing in readiness...


Just plead guily by letter and u get the 3 pts

foreigneRS

the point is not that the ambulance would be in the pic with you jim, but in the next time and date stamped pic that you should be able to produce as evidence. although as said, technically it is still an offence but with mitigating circumstances

brad

did the ambulance go through the red light aswell or had it changed to green again by the time it got to the lights ? if it went through on red it would have had its picture taken too , if it didnt your fucked .

Jim Galbally

lets ignore the ambulance, as ive looked it up, and its on excuse. according to the law, you should stop and block them beleive it or not.

anyway, pleading guilty by post will not be any different to doing it myself in person, i'm NOT guaranteed just the 3 points.

Jasesapphy

iTrader: (1)

Jim was there an ambulance, come on tiger, tell us the truth, were your friends, dont lie to us

SS1

iTrader: (3)

3 points is STILL 3 points FIGHT IT ..or a ban will be looming around your head

good luck

matts1

Did hear of a chap who was done for going through a red light when trying to get out of the way of old bill.

Basically he is sitting at the lights, old bill come up behind, he creeps through and pull round the corner, they did him!

Now, I would liked to have seen the coppers reaction to him refusing to move, would be blasting horns and screaming, as I have seen in the past, and usually a gob full for not getting out of the way. Still, better than a ticket, in future I will sit fast and let them get around me - seems this is what the law wants.

Seems latelty round my way a fresh red light means "you still have time to make it across" 3 - 4 cars rolling through bumper to bumper, get right on my tits!!!