GEMS display with T6 and P8 discussion
15-04-2008, 01:51 PM
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GEMS display with T6 and P8 discussion
Well I still don't know if I want to sell the GEMS DA36 display (you may have seen it in the for sale section, but no serious offer yet so might keep it). However this display is working with T6 ECUs as it was used on the works Escort WRC cars, and I have already a Pectel P8 ECU mapped with my mountune engine, and don't wanna spend another 2k£ on a T6.
The display is connected to the C01 pin of the ECU, could anyone confirm me there is a C01 pin on a Pectel T6 ECU ?
Also would it be possible to make that display working with a P8 ? Maybe by adding a GEMS software inside the pectel board or the chip ?
It is quite hard to get any informations about this display, because it was really used on the top gr.N cars and works WRC machines, so probably not many people could help with this, but I try...
Here are 2 pictures of the display (there is one in the for sale section tho) :
And what about the Can plugs ? I must say I am a bit lost there.
The display is connected to the C01 pin of the ECU, could anyone confirm me there is a C01 pin on a Pectel T6 ECU ?
Also would it be possible to make that display working with a P8 ? Maybe by adding a GEMS software inside the pectel board or the chip ?
It is quite hard to get any informations about this display, because it was really used on the top gr.N cars and works WRC machines, so probably not many people could help with this, but I try...
Here are 2 pictures of the display (there is one in the for sale section tho) :
And what about the Can plugs ? I must say I am a bit lost there.
15-04-2008, 10:01 PM
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Well I still don't know if I want to sell the GEMS DA36 display (you may have seen it in the for sale section, but no serious offer yet so might keep it). However this display is working with T6 ECUs as it was used on the works Escort WRC cars, and I have already a Pectel P8 ECU mapped with my mountune engine, and don't wanna spend another 2k£ on a T6.
The display is connected to the C01 pin of the ECU, could anyone confirm me there is a C01 pin on a Pectel T6 ECU ?
Also would it be possible to make that display working with a P8 ? Maybe by adding a GEMS software inside the pectel board or the chip ?
It is quite hard to get any informations about this display, because it was really used on the top gr.N cars and works WRC machines, so probably not many people could help with this, but I try...
Here are 2 pictures of the display (there is one in the for sale section tho) :
And what about the Can plugs ? I must say I am a bit lost there.
The display is connected to the C01 pin of the ECU, could anyone confirm me there is a C01 pin on a Pectel T6 ECU ?
Also would it be possible to make that display working with a P8 ? Maybe by adding a GEMS software inside the pectel board or the chip ?
It is quite hard to get any informations about this display, because it was really used on the top gr.N cars and works WRC machines, so probably not many people could help with this, but I try...
Here are 2 pictures of the display (there is one in the for sale section tho) :
And what about the Can plugs ? I must say I am a bit lost there.
Not sure what you mean by C01 but the T6 has options to output various types of protocol.
Sell it and buy an AIM MXL.
16-04-2008, 07:05 AM
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I spoke with GEMS and they want to charge me 800£ to make the P8 mod to work with this display, so I think the best would be the T6 route directly. rapidcossie, I don't know, I am open to serious offers, this unit is brand new, never been used, and it has been tested by GEMS with of course no fault or problem (have the paper under the hand).
Gareth, do you know anyone else who could make the P8 mod other than GEMS ? I trust GEMS when they say 800£, but then I should directly buy a T6.
Gareth, do you know anyone else who could make the P8 mod other than GEMS ? I trust GEMS when they say 800£, but then I should directly buy a T6.
16-04-2008, 07:48 AM
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The trouble with these types of displays is, they work on the data logging channels, so i'd imagine GEMS would have to introduce a data log device to then feed the dash.
£800 in commercial terms isn't a vast amount of time and material to make the dash work with a P8 and i'll bet there arn't many people who want to do this mod.
The CAN bus on the T6 is just another communications device for higher speed data acquisition, on my own car Gems used the CAN connection for the T6 and a serial connection for the Diffs
The high and low can connections of the T6 are pins 11 & 47
£800 in commercial terms isn't a vast amount of time and material to make the dash work with a P8 and i'll bet there arn't many people who want to do this mod.
The CAN bus on the T6 is just another communications device for higher speed data acquisition, on my own car Gems used the CAN connection for the T6 and a serial connection for the Diffs
The high and low can connections of the T6 are pins 11 & 47
16-04-2008, 08:06 AM
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The trouble with these types of displays is, they work on the data logging channels, so i'd imagine GEMS would have to introduce a data log device to then feed the dash.
£800 in commercial terms isn't a vast amount of time and material to make the dash work with a P8 and i'll bet there arn't many people who want to do this mod.
The CAN bus on the T6 is just another communications device for higher speed data acquisition, on my own car Gems used the CAN connection for the T6 and a serial connection for the Diffs
The high and low can connections of the T6 are pins 11 & 47
£800 in commercial terms isn't a vast amount of time and material to make the dash work with a P8 and i'll bet there arn't many people who want to do this mod.
The CAN bus on the T6 is just another communications device for higher speed data acquisition, on my own car Gems used the CAN connection for the T6 and a serial connection for the Diffs
The high and low can connections of the T6 are pins 11 & 47
Oh and Gareth, GEMS provided me the correct editing software, so I can edit the screen, sensors, alarms, and so on
Last edited by Mad Matt; 16-04-2008 at 08:13 AM.
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16-04-2008, 08:12 AM
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yes for the agro, i would sell the p8 and get the t6 if you are fixed on using the dash.
Otherwise sell it and get a independant dash rather than a CAN/Serial dependant one (i.e Stack, Aim, Motec, Pi, Race)
For the cost of 800, i would rather sell the ECU and get a second hand t6, for not much more, and then sell your P8 to pay for the mapping of your new t6.
Otherwise sell it and get a independant dash rather than a CAN/Serial dependant one (i.e Stack, Aim, Motec, Pi, Race)
For the cost of 800, i would rather sell the ECU and get a second hand t6, for not much more, and then sell your P8 to pay for the mapping of your new t6.
16-04-2008, 11:48 AM
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Well, do I need the special crank pulley with the T6. I don't know exactly how different this ECU is compared to the P8. Some would say totally different, but can it still work with the pectel loom I have for the engine with the std sensors ? Because I would have to pay 800£ for the T6, and few other to make the map, and then maybe another £££ for the loom ? Maybe the first 800£ to modify my P8 would be more interesting on a money point of view.
I do not need TC or diff control, basically the engine is an ex-mountune unit re-mapped by Harvey Gibbs, what it has is als, air injectors, water injection, and that's all I think. So maybe the T6 would be "too much" for my use.
And finally I don't know how much I could get from the P8. As I said it can run ALS, WI, air/air and on the chip it says dizzyless but not mounted on the engine, so may be worth 450£ ?
Lot of questions... :S
I do not need TC or diff control, basically the engine is an ex-mountune unit re-mapped by Harvey Gibbs, what it has is als, air injectors, water injection, and that's all I think. So maybe the T6 would be "too much" for my use.
And finally I don't know how much I could get from the P8. As I said it can run ALS, WI, air/air and on the chip it says dizzyless but not mounted on the engine, so may be worth 450£ ?
Lot of questions... :S
16-04-2008, 12:17 PM
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Well, do I need the special crank pulley with the T6. I don't know exactly how different this ECU is compared to the P8. Some would say totally different, but can it still work with the pectel loom I have for the engine with the std sensors ? Because I would have to pay 800£ for the T6, and few other to make the map, and then maybe another £££ for the loom ? Maybe the first 800£ to modify my P8 would be more interesting on a money point of view.
I do not need TC or diff control, basically the engine is an ex-mountune unit re-mapped by Harvey Gibbs, what it has is als, air injectors, water injection, and that's all I think. So maybe the T6 would be "too much" for my use.
And finally I don't know how much I could get from the P8. As I said it can run ALS, WI, air/air and on the chip it says dizzyless but not mounted on the engine, so may be worth 450£ ?
Lot of questions... :S
I do not need TC or diff control, basically the engine is an ex-mountune unit re-mapped by Harvey Gibbs, what it has is als, air injectors, water injection, and that's all I think. So maybe the T6 would be "too much" for my use.
And finally I don't know how much I could get from the P8. As I said it can run ALS, WI, air/air and on the chip it says dizzyless but not mounted on the engine, so may be worth 450£ ?
Lot of questions... :S
Matt, whats your objective here? From what I understand you have a great ECU running everytyhing you need on your engine and your happy with that?
Seems like your goal is to have nice digital dash? Having gone down the whole T6 route myself, I would not recomend it if your happy with your current setup and dont want to spend a fortune. You will need a new loom to go with a T6 so add another £500 min into your numbers.
If I were doing it again and I was exactly where you was with a well specced P8, but wanting a fancy digi type dash, I would not go the T6 route.
I would do one of 2 things:
1. Fit a Collins Monitor and run that off your ECU giving you access to most readings you need. You may need a few other guages with that option like an normal Rev counter, but I reckon you could do it all for around £500/600 quids.
2. Buy a digi dash (there are loads to choose from but personally I would go AIM. Jay picked the ETB one I think which is also great and cheaper) and and retro fit its own sensors to your engine. I reckon this could be done for around £600/700
Actually whilst here lets suggest the 3rd option. An aftermarket ECU (does not have to be Pectel T6) capable of outputting a known datastream running into something like an AIM MXL.
To answer your other question, yes you need a 36-1 Crank pulley for the T6. Not sure what belts your using on your engine as you can get a 36-1 from fords with poly V belt type. If your on twin fan belt types then the pulley is a little more tricky someone like A1 rallysport can help there.
Hope that helps,
Last edited by polly_x; 16-04-2008 at 12:20 PM.
16-04-2008, 12:42 PM
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Thank you for having showed me more point of views here, mate. Yes, the T6 route seems to be far from what I first thought. I knew it was gonna be expensive, but didn't knew it would need a new loom, so I might just send it to GEMS to make the mod directly.
What I want is basically use that GEMS display, which can make all the other extra gauges/monitors useless, because all can be displayed on the DA36. And as I haven't got any serious offer for it, I might keep it for myself.
As you said, I have a fully working system at the moment, and I don't think I am ready to spend few grands just to make that display working, while I could just spend 800£ with the P8.
I still have lot to spend in the rest of the car before going into highly expensive engine details.
But I am still interested by what Gareth said, that it wouldn't be that hard to modify the P8, because GEMS and Ian proven it is far from easy, but maybe there are other methods.
What I want is basically use that GEMS display, which can make all the other extra gauges/monitors useless, because all can be displayed on the DA36. And as I haven't got any serious offer for it, I might keep it for myself.
As you said, I have a fully working system at the moment, and I don't think I am ready to spend few grands just to make that display working, while I could just spend 800£ with the P8.
I still have lot to spend in the rest of the car before going into highly expensive engine details.
But I am still interested by what Gareth said, that it wouldn't be that hard to modify the P8, because GEMS and Ian proven it is far from easy, but maybe there are other methods.
16-04-2008, 05:55 PM
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get in touch with nicola at RP Lab. if the datastream for the GEMS dash is known, he can easily add it into your P8. whether he would spare the time needed for less than £800 i don't know, but it's definitely worth asking
18-04-2008, 02:23 PM
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18-04-2008, 04:24 PM
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Thank you everyone for the advices.
For those who are interested, this display costed me 1600£. It is brand new. I am looking for 1500£, not less, considering this unit has never been used, but it has been tested by GEMS, and no fault was found of course.
I think I will go the P8 modded route, but I have yet to speak with Harvey Gibbs about my engine and the ECU. If I finally go this route, then it will be a quite unique setup, because I don't think this display was used on P8 ECUs. It is already unpossible to find them, and if they exist (ex-Stian's car had it, and I know an Escort WRC in Switzerland which has that display too), well it was used with T6 ECUs.
Offers in PM for those who are interested, and yes if you already do have a GEMS ECU, it should work directly, just ask GEMS for a confirmation.
For those who are interested, this display costed me 1600£. It is brand new. I am looking for 1500£, not less, considering this unit has never been used, but it has been tested by GEMS, and no fault was found of course.
I think I will go the P8 modded route, but I have yet to speak with Harvey Gibbs about my engine and the ECU. If I finally go this route, then it will be a quite unique setup, because I don't think this display was used on P8 ECUs. It is already unpossible to find them, and if they exist (ex-Stian's car had it, and I know an Escort WRC in Switzerland which has that display too), well it was used with T6 ECUs.
Offers in PM for those who are interested, and yes if you already do have a GEMS ECU, it should work directly, just ask GEMS for a confirmation.
18-04-2008, 06:06 PM
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Exactly mate, you won't find a new one anymore I'm afraid. Not many were built, and guess how many remain working perfectly. I guess not much. 1500£ is a price we can discuss, I'm not blocked on this price. I just want to lose the less I can with it.
18-04-2008, 06:41 PM
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18-04-2008, 08:08 PM
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Yes you can, but imo the DA36 is better, because you can have more gauges and infos on the screen. How much is the DA37 ? I don't think it was used on the Escort WRCs either. Just my 2 quids... And to have it on GEMS' website does not mean it is still for sale, you have to look with their sellers. 
26-04-2008, 07:58 PM
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I got offered a T6 ECU but after I contacted Pi Research, here is what they told me :
"This ECU shows as being on an AER developer. It is a very early unit for the T6 2000 range. Cost of changing the developer is 250UKP you will then need software. Software 315UKP."
So bad news for me, I don't think I will be able to do anything with this, anyone thinking it would be more interesting than what it seems or would it be a total waste of money to get it ?
"This ECU shows as being on an AER developer. It is a very early unit for the T6 2000 range. Cost of changing the developer is 250UKP you will then need software. Software 315UKP."
So bad news for me, I don't think I will be able to do anything with this, anyone thinking it would be more interesting than what it seems or would it be a total waste of money to get it ?
27-04-2008, 12:26 AM
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Matt, not sure how much the T6 is gonna cost you but I would go that route if you really want to use that dash. I bet you will will never get it working with a P8.
The software is easily available once the ECU is open developer.
The software is easily available once the ECU is open developer.
02-05-2008, 07:16 AM
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Yes, well I have a small problem :
1) Pectel told me : "This ECU shows as being on an AER developer. It is a very early unit for the T6 2000 range. Cost of changing the developer is 250UKP you will then need software. Software 315UKP."
2) The seller told me this ECU was used on Cosworth cars, so well I don't know how to trust. Is anyone able to tell, by the look of the serial number, if the ECU is locked or not ?
Serial number is 2022.
Thanks
1) Pectel told me : "This ECU shows as being on an AER developer. It is a very early unit for the T6 2000 range. Cost of changing the developer is 250UKP you will then need software. Software 315UKP."
2) The seller told me this ECU was used on Cosworth cars, so well I don't know how to trust. Is anyone able to tell, by the look of the serial number, if the ECU is locked or not ?
Serial number is 2022.
Thanks
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