Cossiemaster

Below is a link to a forum of some guy with a skyline who intends taking part in the time attack competition.

If he is allowed to run it makes the time attack rules very selective and a complete joke, based on the fact Andrew Gallacher last year got booted out because he had used some tube framing to strengthen his chassis, keeping in mind the original dimensions and alot of the cars floor was put back to as close to original as possible.

A tube chassis in my mind is tubes connecting front to rear just like the skyline in question, Andrew's car used original sills as the chassis using tube to strengthen them, if floor and sills were removed there would be no car.

Skyline boy claims he has had approval on all mods from time attack, as stated his thread.

We all know Time Attack booted Andrew last year because he was capable of doing 54.5 sec when skyline boy was managing a lovely 58.8 lap, i cant wait to see if they let him run this year when they find out of his 51.4 lap achievement.

If the skyline runs they cant possibly stop Andrew.(no winning points for the english lol)

OR CAN THEY.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/95...ttack-car.html

Regards

Cossiemaster

rapidcossie

says link invalid?

carlo

iTrader: (4)

Worked for me im proper pissed off reading this rules for some & not for others

madmack99

??

Stavros

Here is the relevant rules, make of them what you will.



Cracks me up tho that everyone seems to think its a conspiracy JUST to stop Andy G competing as he will destory everyone as A)- I doubt he will, and B)- No reason they would do that, esp as 99% of the people wont even have heard of the car.

fuzzy

taken from the site....

Jamz

Andy G's blatantly broke the rules, not sure about that Skyline.

Garage19

AG has completly removed his inner wings and front chassis rails and replaced them with a tube frame.

Against the rules... simple.

That skyline seems to have all its chassis rails, sills, suspension mounts held together by the original monocoque shell.

carlo

iTrader: (4)

STAVROS
no4
no5 above

Cossiemaster

He blatantly broke the rules? I think you'l find he built a car to suit him self but didn't seem to suit Time Attack very much.

Shame really as then it may have been worth watching.

Cossiemaster

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

So where's the floor then LOL

dumped

Looking at the pics the sill is still there but chassis rail? is it not more inboard and hence missing as its now a tube floor. And notice how much tube in the floor.......

Andy's car was unfortunately against the rules last year simple. This one is a little more cunning.

Stavros

CARLO

couldnt give a shit about TA really so dont need to post anything toward me, whinge all you like, i just put up the rules to give some substance to the argument.

PS, i heard 9/11 was planned to try and disrupt the truth coming out that Andy G's car is the fastest thing in the world ever and that it complies with all rules ever, even the rules to scrabble and monopoly.

BadAss Focus

sills? you can see throu them? chassis rails they seem to be replaced with tube?

JjCoDeX75

WTF is Andy G, and why do so many on a ford forum care about this particular heavily modified Skyline?

Genuine question

JJ

rigwrecker

lol near spat my tea out

carlo

iTrader: (4)

you put up the rules fair enough i was just pointing out they contradict themselfs a bit if that skyline gets approval..& that other shit you posted lay off the drink or drugs

carlo

iTrader: (4)

Because andy got kicked out of time attack for having tube chassis & now this one has got approval

Cossiemaster

How about picking on someone your own size.

JjCoDeX75

I see. Strikes me that both cars should have been outlawed, but I am basing this on the photos only obviously!

Not to mention that I know fuck all about this sort of thing to be fair.

JJ

GTechR

Question is though, in the big scheme of things will Andy be all that bothred? I doubt it.

carlo

iTrader: (4)

Its just the point really

Big G

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Its not TECHNICALLY a space frame, where as AGs was in some areas.

As stated rather cunning about its approach and borderline from being banned id imagine but skimmed through. Fair play, making the most of the rules imo.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

That skyline has been very cleverly built to the EXACT letter of the rules.
So it meets them, thats what happens in motorsport.

What the fuck are people complaining about?

It has the required original pickup points for the suspension etc, andyg's car doesnt, so its legal and his isnt, it really is THAT simple.

No conspiracy involved, they didnt bring the rules out after andyg made his car, im sure they would quite like to see fords at the event as they bring in a lot of punters, the reality is though they published the rules in plenty of time, and andy made an active decision NOT to conform to them with building his car, and this fella made the opposite decision, result is that one is legal and one isnt?

What is the complaint?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

As part of my language studies degree ive been learning to speak "mad ranting scottish" so Im going to practive by converting some of it to english for those interested:


Translation, Andy didnt obey the rules of the series with regards to suspension pickup points.

Translation, some bloke babbling on about things that arent relevant to the rules

Translation: guy building time attack car, checks with time attack his car is legal, which is a pretty fucking sensible thing to do in motorsport

Translation: Andy would have been banned if his time was 4.67 years, because his car didnt meet the rules, this year his car doesnt meet the rules again so will be banned again wether it does a lap in 3 seconds or 59 lifetimes.

Translation: Waaa waaa waaa, throws toys, boo hoo hoo

Translation: Of course they HAVE to (not can HAVE to) becauce it breaks the rules blatantly.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i can't see the pics, or even the link, but one thong does seem pretty clear to me

the rules state that you need to keep the orignal bits of the car that are strutural
so the inner wings and stuff need to be kept original
the floor of the car has been deemed to not be required (or whatever he's chopped about) and so it's ok

if you build a car, then decided to entre events because it's a good motor then don't be surprised if the car doesn't meet the rules and they don't let you play

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

I see the Andy G arse licking brigade are up in arms again. Funny how Andy never seems to post, or whinge or moan about it, isnt it

Renton

Take all that tubing off the floor and the car would not hold itself together on the road in my opinion. So the way I see it is that tube flooring is INSTEAD of original chassis sections and not 'in addition to' as the rules state...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The rules dont say that if you cut all the bars back out the chassis has to have a specific amount of strength anywhere than I can see?
They just say if you are adding tubes and/or cutting out chassis sections those alterations need to be submitted for approval and he has done so.

He has read the rules very carefully, come up with a design that he felt should "just" pass them, and has checked as he went along with the organisers that his assumptions are correct, what more can anyone do in any form of motorsport than that?

Building a car to regulations is ALL about the letter of the rules and NOT their intent, surely you realise that?

BadAss Focus

its hardly still a monocoque shell when if you removed his tubing the car would fall apart, so you can't say its triangulation and bracing

BadAss Focus

and it clearly has TUBE FRAME CHASSIS EXTENSIONS cause the chassis has been cut and exteneded front to rear with tube!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The rules dont say that if you remove all the bracing, the car would still stay in one piece, and if they did say that, how the fuck are they going to test it, cut all the bars out and make him do a lap at full race speed?

Seriously, you guys clearly know very little about the difference between the letter of the rules, and the intent of the rules for a motor racing series!

All your points are based on what you interpret the rules as being intended to mean, NOT what they actually say!

I agree that this car is exactly the sort of thing that the rules are trying to exclude, in order to stop people having to engage in this sort of expense in order to be competitive, but the rules have FAILED to do so as this car does pass them, so its legal, it really is that simple!

foreigneRS

as chip is saying, there is often a big difference between complying with the spirit of the rules and the letter of the rules and the best competitors will always design to the absolute limits of the letter of the rules

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Happens ALL the time in motorsport.

Even basic stuff like there are rules in many entry level forms of motorsport saying that conrods must be original items and unmachined, the intent of this is to stop people spending hundreds on having them balanced, the reality though is that instead of spending hundreds having a set machined and balanced, instead people potentially need to spend even more, to buy loads and loads of "standard" rods so they can weigh and catalogue every single one and then pick the optimum 4 from the 80 they have bought, which means it gets even more expensive to build your engine, not cheaper like the rules intended.

Same in F1, they brought in rules to say you have to use the same engine for 2 races, intended to cut down on expenditure on engines and make it cheaper for the low budget teams, the reality is that now the front teams actually undergo far more testing on their engine as they have to dyno prove it for 2 entire races back to back on their simulators where its put through every single throttle movement that it will see for the whole 2 races, and that means having far more attempts at it than before, so puts cost up.

It happens all the time, rules are brought in to bring costs down, but the reality is that getting round those rules to still achieve what you need to win then costs far more than it did before the rules existed.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Exactly, quit moaning everyone

BadAss Focus

The rules dont say that if you remove all the bracing, the car would still stay in one piece, and if they did say that, how the fuck are they going to test it, cut all the bars out and make him do a lap at full race speed?


not monocoque shell then is it?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its a monocoque shell that has been modified YES, and there is NOTHING in the rules that says you arent allowed to modify the monocoque shell, it just says that if you do then you must retain suspension mounting points (which he has) and you must submit alterations for approval (which he has) which bit of all this is confusing you, as its extremely fucking simple IMHO?

BadAss Focus

he's turned it into a frame with spacing!!

andrewg

this is more interesting than ta its self!!