Live mapping tutorial by Stu.... Discussion Required
28-02-2004, 08:13 PM
#241
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so is "getting into" an ecu along similar lines of "hacking"? ie breaking there codes etc.
how long can/does it take to get past security? ie does it cost u alot of ur time etc?
wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?
how long can/does it take to get past security? ie does it cost u alot of ur time etc?
wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?
28-02-2004, 08:14 PM
#242
Stu @ M Developments,
cambus
cambus
from a quick count i can tell you that there is no fewer than 7 ecm's as a minimum on todays cars , all have multi comm patterns via wired pairs as production data communication , all with digital atributes , with lots of 'if' possibilities !!
and as for the data speed through can , well , let s put it this way , alot of the diagnostic software thats about to day , has to have some form of converter to in effect slow the data thats in the syatem so it can be read , wether it be primary or secondary comm speed !!
28-02-2004, 08:16 PM
#243
scottbrown,
wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?
wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?
but , ive not yet been told 'sorry cant do that' in the many years ive been dealing with msd !!
that includes diesels etc etc ! (and vans
) 
28-02-2004, 08:19 PM
#244
scottbrown,
so is "getting into" an ecu along similar lines of "hacking"? ie breaking there codes etc.
how long can/does it take to get past security? ie does it cost u alot of ur time etc?
so is "getting into" an ecu along similar lines of "hacking"? ie breaking there codes etc.
how long can/does it take to get past security? ie does it cost u alot of ur time etc?
On 99% of stuff we can just remove the eprom itself, put it in the programmer and extract its data...
Then we begin the process seen throughout this post of sourcing maps etc etc etc.
Once all that is done, we have found the maps and modified em, we cant just burn it back to a chip and rteplace it, as i presume most of you would expect?
Oh no.. we then have to get past the checksum security built into the ecu..
Alter 1 single digit in that file, and the ecu wont allow the engine to start....
the bit youve just read 5pages of, is the extremely simple bit
scottbrown,
wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?
wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?
(Tricky little thing actually.. keyless entry, the lot
)
28-02-2004, 08:32 PM
#246
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answers stu! and in easy terms for us lay men to understand 
couple more questions for u..
so is it legal for u to "break into" for example a megane ecu and make changes to the map?
how easy is it to put bk to standard for example for warrenty purposes?
cheers
29-02-2004, 12:14 PM
#252
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Excellent thread, i've been here for about the last three hours reading everything and it's been a bloody good insight into it all as i really didn't have a clue, still don't on some of the things mentioned but it's still a interesting thread
01-03-2004, 01:57 PM
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when u live map a car stu, say for example its 9am mid of january and its -2 outside, cos of the cold air the car is less likely to det?? but wot happens then when i drive my car in august and its 35 degrees outside??
how do u allow for this?
how do u allow for this?
01-03-2004, 02:15 PM
#255
Testing the future
simple, you have a table for ACT to take account of this. as ACT increases, you retard (or advance less) the ignition timing as this table (taken from a demo version of the SECS S8 management software shows:
05-03-2004, 01:02 PM
#260
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Originally Posted by TM
On the SECS Ignition retard for air temp is it not based on Load as well.
It is based on load aswell on the final release version.
07-03-2004, 01:03 PM
#268
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When you're mapping the YB cosworth engine (or any engine really when I think of it, but let's say the YB to simplify a bit).
What is the mechanical factors that limits power output ?
Let's use a stage 3 escort Cossie as a first example and another one with anything you like on it to make as much power as possible (still 2 litres).
I really like this post.
What is the mechanical factors that limits power output ?
Let's use a stage 3 escort Cossie as a first example and another one with anything you like on it to make as much power as possible (still 2 litres).
I really like this post.
03-01-2005, 03:29 PM
#271
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cracking topic!!!!
read thru the lot
very interesting as mines gonna go off to be done soon, but in reading the EECIV bit.....
im probly gonna be hated
read thru the lot
very interesting as mines gonna go off to be done soon, but in reading the EECIV bit.....
im probly gonna be hated
03-01-2005, 11:21 PM
#272
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By the way - Stu I don't know if it;'s the right place to write that but you webside still says you can map EEC IV and you say you can't - one version must be changed
04-01-2005, 09:38 AM
#273
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Mapping the fuel map is rather straigthforward with the correct tools, but I've always wondered how the tuners tune the ignition maps? Of course watching for detonation is one thing, but that really helps only in one part of the map. Do tuners usually play with the not boosted part of the ignition map much at all?
Also an original ignition map of a RST would be interesting to see.
Also an original ignition map of a RST would be interesting to see.
04-01-2005, 09:45 AM
#275
Originally Posted by JesseT
Do tuners usually play with the not boosted part of the ignition map much at all?
I tend to spend FAR more time in teh off boost areas than i do teh on boost areas of the map. I personally class driveability, power delivery and fuel consumption as equally if not more important than outright horsepower.
04-01-2005, 10:27 AM
#276
Testing the future
good question Jesse
like you, i agree that if you've got a reasonable wb lambda sensor and controller it's relatively easy to setup the fuelling reasonably accurately, but what about the ignition?
what tools do we need (for example det cans, knock sensors, EGT probes, accelerometers etc) to be able to setup the ignition maps well? and what are we looking to do in all areas of the maps? for example on max boost we want to advance for power but not too much for det, but what about coming on boost (where we may want to run not as much advance for higher egt temps to give energy to the turbo for faster spool up, for example), around idle, below idle (big advance to get speed up again?), cruising, gentle acceleration, off throttle (cut ignition and fuel?).
many questions in there i'm sure stu, but we'd appreciate your experience and teaching as much as possible (and any other tuners, pro or diy)
like you, i agree that if you've got a reasonable wb lambda sensor and controller it's relatively easy to setup the fuelling reasonably accurately, but what about the ignition?
what tools do we need (for example det cans, knock sensors, EGT probes, accelerometers etc) to be able to setup the ignition maps well? and what are we looking to do in all areas of the maps? for example on max boost we want to advance for power but not too much for det, but what about coming on boost (where we may want to run not as much advance for higher egt temps to give energy to the turbo for faster spool up, for example), around idle, below idle (big advance to get speed up again?), cruising, gentle acceleration, off throttle (cut ignition and fuel?).
many questions in there i'm sure stu, but we'd appreciate your experience and teaching as much as possible (and any other tuners, pro or diy)
04-01-2005, 12:07 PM
#277
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by JesseT
Do tuners usually play with the not boosted part of the ignition map much at all?
I tend to spend FAR more time in the off boost areas than i do the on boost areas of the map. I personally class driveability, power delivery and fuel consumption as equally if not more important than outright horsepower.
04-01-2005, 01:48 PM
#278
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Azrael
By the way - Stu I don't know if it;'s the right place to write that but you webside still says you can map EEC IV and you say you can't - one version must be changed
Now I'm really confused... there must be your other self speaking to me from time to time or something.
I asked you a couple of times about mapping EEC IV in my Escos and you said no - you've got the equipment and knowledge but to much R&D to do it hmm...
The only explanation behind all this is that Escos EEV IV is something different then EEC IV on other Fords....
04-01-2005, 01:56 PM
#279
Azrael,
The only explanation behind all this is that Escos EEV IV is something different then EEC IV on other Fords....
The only explanation behind all this is that Escos EEV IV is something different then EEC IV on other Fords....
Il address the other questions later as theyre not so easy to answer.. keep em coming as i enjoy this topic
04-01-2005, 01:59 PM
#280
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Azrael,
The only explanation behind all this is that Escos EEV IV is something different then EEC IV on other Fords....
The only explanation behind all this is that Escos EEV IV is something different then EEC IV on other Fords....
But inside limitations of existing sensors it is doable no problems? Injectors I think last until about 300HP?