escos getting 1 more chance it seems
17-03-2008, 10:06 AM
#42
PassionFord Post Whore!!
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: warrington
Posts: 8,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its a shame but if that how you feel why throw more money at something you have fallen out with?
breaking it is probably the best answer as im sure there wont be a queue of people with a huge wad of cash ready to buy the car as it wouldnt be cheap as it is....much more chance of selling it off in parts...........
then buy whatever you want-ready to go and enjoy it!
wish i was in your dilemma........ already own an awesome array of cars,then do i finish an awesome escos or buy an ex touring car or an rs200!
breaking it is probably the best answer as im sure there wont be a queue of people with a huge wad of cash ready to buy the car as it wouldnt be cheap as it is....much more chance of selling it off in parts...........
then buy whatever you want-ready to go and enjoy it!
wish i was in your dilemma........ already own an awesome array of cars,then do i finish an awesome escos or buy an ex touring car or an rs200!
17-03-2008, 10:20 AM
#43
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am in the same boat at the moment. Sometimes I wish I had kept mt 12k mile cosworth pretty standard
17-03-2008, 10:23 AM
#44
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
break it and buy another toy, like an ex-tourer. much better scenrio.
look at martins leon, AWESOME car! not many cars on here would touch it round a track and its 250bhp, and cost less than your engine build
look at martins leon, AWESOME car! not many cars on here would touch it round a track and its 250bhp, and cost less than your engine build
17-03-2008, 10:25 AM
#45
).Trouble is with the internet it provides access to too many sweets for candy-aholics to look at, and so they end up chosing ALL of them
.Shame people are losing heart, as the cars would be on another level to what has been seen lately (Martin's car excepted)
.
17-03-2008, 10:27 AM
#46
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having seen this happen so many times, I desperately try and advise people not to get too carried away and point out the pitfalls to my customers of what constantly moving the goal-posts does to the build time. I'm sure they think I'm being a party-pooper sometimes, but it seems to be a struggle to rein some people in (no names mentioned, but one started this thread and another posted on it ).
Trouble is with the internet it provides access to too many sweets for candy-aholics to look at, and so they end up chosing ALL of them.
Shame people are losing heart, as the cars would be on another level to what has been seen lately (Martin's car excepted).
).Trouble is with the internet it provides access to too many sweets for candy-aholics to look at, and so they end up chosing ALL of them
.Shame people are losing heart, as the cars would be on another level to what has been seen lately (Martin's car excepted)
.Your right as usual Mike
I did set my goals too high but the real problem for me is that the project has taken soooo long I have just lost interest. I would rather spend the money on a house at the moment, maybe ill build a project again in the future but ill make sure I will ahve a budget and a timescale in mind next time.
17-03-2008, 10:31 AM
#47
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
unfortunately that the problem i had aswell j, waiting for things to happen and people to do stuff, really fucked me off, so sold up.
everything seems to take forever to get something simple done.
everything seems to take forever to get something simple done.
17-03-2008, 10:31 AM
#48
A car needs to have a degree of a challange to peddle it quickly to be interesting I think....
17-03-2008, 10:32 AM
#49
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mike, the leon would be so far infront of the cossy in the first place, that it probably wouldnt get caught, and its now having a bit more power so will be on the happy side of 300. 
and for 1, the leon wouldnt break down.
but yes i do agree they need a bit of power to make them interesting, but greg said its one of the most fun cars he's driven, mainly due to the fact that its soo unexpected.
1, its FWD
2, its FWD
3, it only has 250bhp
4, it has 4 doors.
5, its a very cheap car for what you get, i.e suspension and breakes on that car new, are more than what the car sells for now.
and for 1, the leon wouldnt break down.
but yes i do agree they need a bit of power to make them interesting, but greg said its one of the most fun cars he's driven, mainly due to the fact that its soo unexpected.
1, its FWD
2, its FWD
3, it only has 250bhp
4, it has 4 doors.
5, its a very cheap car for what you get, i.e suspension and breakes on that car new, are more than what the car sells for now.
Last edited by Ryan; 17-03-2008 at 10:34 AM.
17-03-2008, 10:41 AM
#50
mike, the leon would be so far infront of the cossy in the first place, that it probably wouldnt get caught, and its now having a bit more power so will be on the happy side of 300.
and for 1, the leon wouldnt break down.
but yes i do agree they need a bit of power to make them interesting, but greg said its one of the most fun cars he's driven, mainly due to the fact that its soo unexpected.
1, its FWD
2, its FWD
3, it only has 250bhp
4, it has 4 doors.
5, its a very cheap car for what you get, i.e suspension and breakes on that car new, are more than what the car sells for now.
and for 1, the leon wouldnt break down.
but yes i do agree they need a bit of power to make them interesting, but greg said its one of the most fun cars he's driven, mainly due to the fact that its soo unexpected.
1, its FWD
2, its FWD
3, it only has 250bhp
4, it has 4 doors.
5, its a very cheap car for what you get, i.e suspension and breakes on that car new, are more than what the car sells for now.
.More power to strain the standard VAG gearbox and possibly get into unreliability issues? Good call
.I HATE fwd
.Rather than the Leon, I would rather buy a cheap E46 M3, strip it completely and turn that into a fun track car - at least you can go sideways
.
17-03-2008, 10:45 AM
#51
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bet you it doesnt though mike.
we'll see how it fares against peggy when there next at a track day together.
i agree RWD can be more fun, but for the money you cant grumble, out of the box fun.
not more work, i.e buy and m3, strip it, cage it, buy decent tyres and wheels, probably change brakes and suspension etc etc.
we'll see how it fares against peggy when there next at a track day together.
i agree RWD can be more fun, but for the money you cant grumble, out of the box fun.
not more work, i.e buy and m3, strip it, cage it, buy decent tyres and wheels, probably change brakes and suspension etc etc.
17-03-2008, 10:59 AM
#55
A truer word has never been spoken - in rwd, it will still be fun on the track (with the correct suspension mods) and blisteringly quick on the road for 99% of all occasions - the other 1% is totally illegal and would see you locked up and the key thrown away anyway
.All your car needs is to have some time spent fine tuning the map to be perfect for your car (like I did with my Sapphire when it was on 803s
). Best conversion EVER IMO. Power corrupts .
17-03-2008, 10:59 AM
#56
Professional Waffler
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 26,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your right as usual Mike I did set my goals too high but the real problem for me is that the project has taken soooo long I have just lost interest. I would rather spend the money on a house at the moment, maybe ill build a project again in the future but ill make sure I will ahve a budget and a timescale in mind next time.
I did set my goals too high but the real problem for me is that the project has taken soooo long I have just lost interest. I would rather spend the money on a house at the moment, maybe ill build a project again in the future but ill make sure I will ahve a budget and a timescale in mind next time.does that mean your project is over now too?
17-03-2008, 11:02 AM
#57
Having seen this happen so many times, I desperately try and advise people not to get too carried away and point out the pitfalls to my customers of what constantly moving the goal-posts does to the build time. I'm sure they think I'm being a party-pooper sometimes, but it seems to be a struggle to rein some people in (no names mentioned, but one started this thread and another posted on it ).
Trouble is with the internet it provides access to too many sweets for candy-aholics to look at, and so they end up chosing ALL of them.
Shame people are losing heart, as the cars would be on another level to what has been seen lately (Martin's car excepted).
).Trouble is with the internet it provides access to too many sweets for candy-aholics to look at, and so they end up chosing ALL of them
.Shame people are losing heart, as the cars would be on another level to what has been seen lately (Martin's car excepted)
.Fortunately for Mike (due to having deep pockets) he can just hand his car over to Martin, and it will appear finished, and probably very soon based on how quickly he turns work around normally, so Im sure the project can be brought back under control.
I agree with everything you said though, done it myself and seen loads of other people do the same, get carried away speccing things up and up and up, then all those things have knock on effect (power and gearboxes/diffs for example) and before you know it, you are building something you either cant afford, is going to take forever, or you wont have the talent to drive and do justice to anyway.
Most sensible person on here so far I reckon is gatecrasher (advised by you no doubt) as he seems to be doing everything in the right order and to sensible specs and is getting lots of seat time in as he goes.
Thats the way to enjoy a car properly
17-03-2008, 11:02 AM
#58
mustadmit ive never had a prob with my saff at 350.but i hear alot of people now at just over 400 with no issues.well as long as theyve changed the box on a 4x4 and diff on a 2wd
as for fwd. i think 200 is right.as my old rst at over 250 was a fookin mare
as for fwd.
i think 200 is right.as my old rst at over 250 was a fookin mare
17-03-2008, 11:06 AM
#59
So applying what you've learnt from a bad fwd car to a good fwd car doesnt always hold true.
17-03-2008, 11:10 AM
#61
To be fair though, the average RST is shocking from a suspension and driveshaft and diff point of view, and also the typical power delivery of a 250bhp CVH, so torque steers all over the place while a moderate spec corsa with more power lays it down quite happily with no drama whatsoever and goes cruising past making it look easy.
So applying what you've learnt from a bad fwd car to a good fwd car doesnt always hold true.
So applying what you've learnt from a bad fwd car to a good fwd car doesnt always hold true.
you have a point,i did love it but it was shit for any thing other than motorways.i would never go back to fwd now though anyway.even if 4wd is for "girls" lol
the escortwas never a good car for it to start with i supose.glad i didnt do all the work and just bought it like it
well except the supsension
17-03-2008, 11:12 AM
#62
To be fair though, the average RST is shocking from a suspension and driveshaft and diff point of view, and also the typical power delivery of a 250bhp CVH, so torque steers all over the place while a moderate spec corsa with more power lays it down quite happily with no drama whatsoever and goes cruising past making it look easy.
So applying what you've learnt from a bad fwd car to a good fwd car doesnt always hold true.
So applying what you've learnt from a bad fwd car to a good fwd car doesnt always hold true.
Totally agree.. with geometry, diff, equal length shafts, tyres etc 200+ is more than possible/usable with a fwd ford.
Its being aware that if you want the higher HP you need to be prepared to finance the set up of the car to handle it..
But you still get the stero-typical 230bhp cvh rst's that zig zag across the road.. and thats 90% of peoples experiences/memories
17-03-2008, 11:18 AM
#65
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
radders thats a very sweeping statement, thats like saying all RWD will oversteer if pushed hard.
thats a known fact about both, but different cars have very different limit.
a 200bhp RST will under steer in every corner, yet most other car manufcaturers wont.
a 300bhp saph will oversteer round a corner, yet an m3 wont.
In short, Fords are shite but you gotta love them
thats a known fact about both, but different cars have very different limit.
a 200bhp RST will under steer in every corner, yet most other car manufcaturers wont.
a 300bhp saph will oversteer round a corner, yet an m3 wont.
In short, Fords are shite
but you gotta love them
17-03-2008, 11:21 AM
#68
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pmsl. i tihnk for micheal the leon or something similar makes perfect sense if its a car purely for this country.
i.e costs are very low, compared to exotic ex-tourer, parts are very very very cheap and readily available unlike ex 500 tourers.
Panels are very easy to get and generally come in the spares package.
Having a low investment means for the little time micheal is in this country he can enjoy the car, and not have the worry if he does god forbid, smash it up, i.e having a smash in a 12k leon, or a 40-50k rs500?
i.e costs are very low, compared to exotic ex-tourer, parts are very very very cheap and readily available unlike ex 500 tourers.
Panels are very easy to get and generally come in the spares package.
Having a low investment means for the little time micheal is in this country he can enjoy the car, and not have the worry if he does god forbid, smash it up, i.e having a smash in a 12k leon, or a 40-50k rs500?
17-03-2008, 11:22 AM
#69
20K+ Super Poster.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Local, when i'm home...
Posts: 22,888
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
radders thats a very sweeping statement, thats like saying all RWD will oversteer if pushed hard.
thats a known fact about both, but different cars have very different limit.
a 200bhp RST will under steer in every corner, yet most other car manufcaturers wont.
a 300bhp saph will oversteer round a corner, yet an m3 wont.
In short, Fords are shite but you gotta love them
thats a known fact about both, but different cars have very different limit.
a 200bhp RST will under steer in every corner, yet most other car manufcaturers wont.
a 300bhp saph will oversteer round a corner, yet an m3 wont.
In short, Fords are shite
but you gotta love them
I bet an M3 WILL oversteer around a corner, and i bet a 200bhp FWD car Ford or not WILL understeer around a corner... Too many variables mate
Anyway, back on topic, it's a shame you wan't to breal Michael but touring car is way cooler mate!
17-03-2008, 11:25 AM
#70
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
theres not really dan, if you think about it objectively, and not just being devils advocate.
Same corner, both m3 and saph, bet the m3 take its faster without breaking traction.
same goes for an escort cossy and an evo.
a perfect example is the focus RS and a 200bhp RST, bet the focus takes the bend much much quicker and would be quicker round a track.
Same corner, both m3 and saph, bet the m3 take its faster without breaking traction.
same goes for an escort cossy and an evo.
a perfect example is the focus RS and a 200bhp RST, bet the focus takes the bend much much quicker and would be quicker round a track.
17-03-2008, 11:31 AM
#72
If you're talking about someone just "mashing" the throttle mid corner, then of course the torque of the TURBOCHARGED car is going to break traction more readily than a weedy asmatic N/A engine
. However, if finessed (and providing the Cossie has the correct rear beam mods), there will be marginal difference in actual corner speed...
17-03-2008, 11:31 AM
#73
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think its much more than that personally micheal, i.e weight distibution of the car, how much weight is situated over the front wheels, type of front and rear suspention design, i.e
struts, wishbone, fixed beam, beam and trailing arms.
struts, wishbone, fixed beam, beam and trailing arms.
17-03-2008, 11:33 AM
#74
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mike that precisely my point, you have to mod everything on the car to make it even the same as a standard car from another manufacturer. (beam, arms, possilby suspension aswell)
and yes i mean driven properly, i.e not provoking the oversteer.
and yes i mean driven properly, i.e not provoking the oversteer.
Last edited by Ryan; 17-03-2008 at 11:34 AM.
17-03-2008, 11:50 AM
#76
15K+ Super Poster!!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 18,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
precisely mike, so why are you slating a perfectly good FWD leon? its not a ford so has much better handling. Granted there not your prefer drivetrain, but you cannot deny that for the money they probably the best out there.
17-03-2008, 12:24 PM
#77
PassionFord Regular
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will not be selling my ecos never and she will just get better and better with time and proll blow up a few times and poop a few gearboxes.Dude dont lose hope ither do it or sell some bits to me lol.I waited 2 years and still didnt lose hope but there were times tbh i felt like wtf is going on lol.
