Foreign....its ALL set up perfect I have a 3.5% CO !!!....and to say fiddle with the middle is ridiculous When you get S8 your learn a hell of a lot more than you know about mapping now!!!

 

sweet phil. Now get out thwere and enjoy it. Although lookin at the weather it may be spinning in every gear.

 

Phil,
As much as I take the piss and think your cock is smaller than a hamster's, you have my respect for the fact that (even with help) you attemped this side of things . However, for the sake of pressing a few buttons, why not tweek it for the mid-range a/f? .

It is good to see Mark, Simon and Karl taking the time to help you too, so I hope your appreciation will show in true style .

 

Why Mike......its slightly richer @ 2.3 bar spike than it should be....and that only cause of cams...but then it evens out as the cams process the air better...

 

well doen phil,,, i still dont understand what you mean by its rich because of the cams though

 

So change the fuelling at that point to compensate then, because running it too rich you are losing some power at that point, if you can change it as easily as I believe can be done, I don't understand why you don't?

 

Mike....i am happy with the current configuration.......jeez i need more wheelspin dont i

Gareth the cams cannot process the air produced at 2.3 bar spike as the cam IS better up high end as its proven..to me anyway.

 

if so, then

but how do you know this? you've got your fuelling right on boost and you've got a 3.5% CO (is that at idle). but to say it's perfect means that you have optimised the ignition timing and fuelling for all load and speed sites - all without ever hearing what detonation sounds like.

it sounds to me that you have been supplied a good base map that runs and drives smoothly, but that does not meant that it is "all set up perfect"

i do hope to learn a lot when i get an S8, and i hope that you keep posting your experiences to help me.

 

just lower the injector duration at the points its rich

 

good stuff phil

why not just do as gareth says re the duty cycle at the known rich points though

mapping clearly not complete

 

Foreign....i am getting perfect AFR readings below boost....no more than 13.7 at any time...the aim is to be under 14 at all times! (below boost)

As for adjusting it WHY?...I dont care if it runs a little rich there...the reason???Hi compression high cylinder temps...the extra fuel helps cool things down!

 

why do you want to be UNDER 14 at ALL times.

that's not proper mapping.

high compression will give you high off boost cylinder temps will it? compared to other engines that can happily run at over 12:1 CR at over 14:1 AFR with lower octane fuel? (my bike engine for one)

i think you still have a little to learn about mapping my friend

 

oh yeah, and you're not measuring EGT as far as i remember, so how do you know that a) it needs cooling down, and b) that it is being cooled enough?

 

Foreign...a cosworth runs at its best below 14 (non cat) Otherwise you will suffer too weak a mixture!...Infact it runs best if you keep it above 12 and below 14 BUT will run from 11 to 14 nicely too.

I need to learn?...this is how the pros told me to set it up!

 

what's different about a non cat cosworth engine to one with a cat fitted with a lambda sensor that means that they need to run different mixtures? i can't see any reason for this.

and i can't see any reason why stu (and others) have spent time and money developing software to run these engines with lambda sensors so that they operate at above 14:1 AFR

 

Foreign...a closed loop system can run at 0.1% or whatever...a non closed loop cant!...or if they could why do i need a lamda???Yes i could get 40 to the gallon off boost.....but it still reverts back to the old map on boost...maybe i dont use the car enuff to give a shit!

 

if the engine with a closed loop control system can run at lambda = 1 and leaner, there's no reason why the same engine without the closed loop lambda system can't as well. what has changed?

as i understand it, you need a base map for if the lambda sensor stops working, but a closed loop system will tweak the fuelling to stay around the lambda = 1 point without using the values in the base map. i see no reason why the base map can't / shouldn't be made to be as close to lambda = 1 at those speed and load points where it is suitable to do so.

i could be wrong, and am just a diy person like yourself that is hoping to learn all of this.

 

I think without the lamda you cant run the on boost map correctly...as yes i can tweak it down to 1% but this alters the whole map (when you adjust the co pot)...and it will be too lean on boost!....3.5% is perfect for my engine without lamda one

 

i'm really not getting this

as i understand the S8, as in most other 'aftermarket' ECU's, you have a 'map' (a table) of load vs. engine speed and the fuel injector duration (or some function of it).

to reduce the fuel input and hence increase the AFR at any particular load and speed, for example idle speed and no load (i.e. vacuum of 15 in.Hg or whatever it is) you just reduce the injector duration at that point in the map. this in no way effects any other values in the map.

so how you set up the fuelling off boost bears no relation to the felling on boost, hence you can run lambda = 1 at idle and cruising at low to mid engine speed and <1 on boost.

have i got it wrong, or are you not fully competent in either using an aftermarket ecu or can't explain it very well?

 

Foreign...i have been mapping for 1 week so what do you think re my experience?

I am sure if i could acheive lamda 1 without the lamda then the base map would be that to start with...

 

you can acheive lambda = 1 using just the base map if you are live mapping. that's the point.

production cars only have a lambda sensor and a closed loop function to take account of the fact that all engines are different so one base map would not be good enough for all production vehicles, and to take wear and sensor drift into account. and to reduce the amount of fine detail mapping needed by having a smaller map and using interpolation.

for your 1 weeks experience, i think that you're doing ok in that you have a running engine that hasn't melted yet.

however, i think that most of your success so far has come from a good base that was supplied to you based on your spec, rather than your ability to tweak this map to exactly suit your particular engine and make the most of it. as far as i can tell, you haven't yet fully grasped the concept of live mapping, which should be that you can tailor the fuel and ignition for your particular engine at all load and speed sites to get the most from it (whether your requirement is purely power, or a mixture of power, economy and reliability changes how you make the map).

and we haven't even touched on acceleration enrichments, adjustments for charge air temperature, altitude, coolant temperature, etc, etc.

but i haven't had any practical experience at all yet and seem to know more about it. perhaps the 3 years of research, reading and using trial software have achieved something, or perhaps i'm talking bollox.

 

Well i doubt Stu with participate in a sensible reply as i started the topic.

I have NOT touched the ignition map so far as this is the barstard part.....its safe i can see that and i can see where i could make more power...but am hesitant Fuelling i have changed.....also put my own rev limits/fault mode/boost control map......I have also adjusted the ACT factor from base..the part that retards on certain temps the hotter the more....etc etc


Like i say i am happy with the fuelling now and this is rellevant i just remembered i rember karl saying if i wanted closed loop i'd have to get the lamda sensor..narrow band i think to acheive it!

 

Phil,
Fit a narrow band lambda sensor and enable it - Thats my recomendation.
You have done all the high boost stuff and most of the mid range mapping.
Let the ecu adjust the idle and part load fuel automatically and it will
make lambda 1.0 @ idle and whilst cruising.
The second you try to accel or go on boost, the auto lambda adjustments are
disabled and the fuel map you made will be used uncorrected.
You wont notice the driving difference but the fuel used will be less
and it will pass an MOT.

 

personally i would keep the wb lambda sensor on there and use the simulated narrow band output for the closed loop control.

that way, the ecu can do it's stuff and you still have a display for the AFR for your peace of mind on boost.

not only will running in closed loop mode give you better fuel economy, by having a cleaner burn it can potentially lengthen the life of spark plugs, make oil last longer before needing a change, prevent the combstion chambers / valve heads / piston crowns coking up which can lead to hotspots creating det.

well worth doing