Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike, my biggest conern with the ally thread is more about what happens to it over time than anything else, but eliminating it totally from the equation would certainly be even better than helping it last longer, Im of the opinion the slight big of extra hassle to fit it, would be a worthwhile trade off.
The stud suggestion was more aimed at people who alrady have these fitted to their car and dont want to have to remove them.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i think the other thing that you would eliminate by not continuously tightening and loosening the bolts wold be that the bolts are steel, and the plate is ali, and you know who they can get stuck or strip the threads altogether if you've ever changed a 4wd selector cradle and found that the bolts won't tighten up again, so with studs you would eliminate the chance of this happening either once they were fixed into position

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Why didnt I think of that?

ian sibbert

You are now nit picking over technicalities, if you were so concerned about the nut and bolt arrangement you could tophat the alloy, with interferance fit tophats to prevent dis-similar metal problems....again it was a known upgrade to grp'n' front ally crosmembers on sierras and escorts, the bolts became difficult to remove, so inserts were used to prevent it. Same with wheels, you'd not bolt a wheel up into the soft ally......anything threaded into ally (even helicoled studs) have a higher probability of failure....

Grayson

Mike Rainbird invited me to add some comments to this thread in response to the concerns that have been expressed, but I feel like I'm dreadfully late seeing as the thread is already 8 pages in length! So, I'm going to try something better - you can just ask me! Feel free to e-mail me with any questions regarding these mounts at grayson@mc2racing.com.

The guy that designed these mounts is an engineer for a defense contractor funded by the U.S. Military. He's designed parts for tanks, and has most recently been engineering components used on military HumVees. He's a bad-ass, but what he doesn't excel at is having a solid online presence . Therefore, I'll be happy to hit him up with any questions you have.

His car is rather ridiculous. Him and his buddy road race routinely, and he built both of their cars. His buddy's car is an XR4Ti with a 331 cubic inch Ford V8 (stroked 5.0L). His car is a turbocharged 3.0L Duratec XR4Ti. Here's a pic:

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

but has he used it to jump over any hump back bridges?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

hello grayson, just a question for you that doesn't seem to have been answered so far (or at least not that i have been able to find in and amongst these past 8 pages)

if you were to undo the adjuster bolts all the way, would the strut then pop through into the engine bay at the top of the turret?

from the pictures it seems to me in any case that the 4 bolts in the corners control the in out movement of the strut top and the central 2 ones control the fore and aft movement
does this mean that only the 4 corner ones go through and the other 2 are threaded into the origianl ali plate for the in out adjustment?

thanks

RST-AndyP

what part of "e-mail me questions" did you not understand? lol

Fiecos Dan

dojj,


Yes it will,

The castor adjuster (centre 2 bolts) bolt thro the top alloy adjuster, into a tap'd holes on the castor slidder. and for this to be able to adjust, it can't bolt to the turret alloy boss. But if you remove them bolts, the shock will moved forward and back, but cant come out.

The camber adjuster (4 top outside bolts) These bolt thro the top alloy slidder, into the turret alloy boss, so if removed, the shock will come thro the turret.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

he has shown that he is not afriad to come here and explain about potential issues with these mounts, so why not ask him for the answers here as opposed to lots of peole asking him the same question via email and him having to give the same ansers time and again?

dan

aurallis

I think its poor show should have a nice explanation for all to read.Or is somone going to call him and wright it all out so we all get the answers we are wanting to hear.Id love some of these but id NEVER touch them after this thread NEVER.

RST-AndyP

Of course these mounts are dangerous and just bling,i am saying the maker dont want to talk on the net,which makes them look even more dodgy LOL.

Email him thats the only way he will answer apparently,not all say one thing and mean another!!

PAUL V

Chip what is around 20mm thick made from alloy and takes the weight of the car ?
Give you a clue it about 50mm in dia

Robski

from my brief overview of this thread,the main contention seems to be around these 4 bolts holding the front strut in place and if they were to become loose or fail.....what about alloy hubs etc that are attached to 4 bolts/studs(or one lock nut in some cases)....if they fail they too will have severe consequences,i haven't seen to many posts about those!!

Time will tell how good these mounts are,it seems alot of people in here have become overnight engineer Wizards....i just think theres ALOT of people making an issue about the material these mounts are made of,apart from the postioning...

dojj

iTrader: (3)

you did chip

but i'm not sure i read anything about the different metals causing the prolems, as far as it was pointed out, the threads being over tightened and loosened was the main problem and that ali was a softer metal and under these circumstances, over time, there may have been issues with it stripping the threads

foreigneRS

didn't read this thread before, i thought it was the sales pitch one that i had read before.

my opinion (as a qualified mechanical engineer that has worked for 12 years in the automotive business at a components supplier) is as follows, although it doesn't add much to the thread as it has also been expressed by similarly clever people:

1) being mounted under the bodywork is better

2) they look perfectly safe in as new condition provided correct torques etc are used and regular inspections are done of tightness etc

3) the improvements suggested by various people would be just that - improvements to a slightly flawed design in terms of strength

4) they have obviously been designed for ease of use (i.e. adjustable in situ) and it would be a shame to reduce their effectiveness in that area (if you really do need something that cna be changed so easily? i'm not sure that you really need to go to the hassle of having different geometry for the road and track days - why not just settle on a compromise?)

5) i very much doubt that they would get tuev approval due to the reasons that chip mentions, but that's not an issue as mike is not trying to sell them in germany. tuev approval is used for all sorts of things, not just car parts, as a means of proving the design and quality of a product. it's no different to the old kite mark in the uk, or being tested to a british standard or whatever. buying a product that has been checked and tested in some way should give a consumer confidence in what they are buying is going to be fit for purpose though, and is no bad thing. would you buy a child seat that has not had to be proven?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Did anyone save the pics of the mounts that were fitted to gatecrashers escort?

Just found this thread to reference them for someone, and they are gone

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Takes the weight on a few threads like this? or in some totally irrelevant way like under compression?

JonnyBravo

Can I just ask how the Ford WRC ones are fitted as last time I looked they appear to be mounted on top of the strut and clearly take a fair amount of abuse.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

that was a long read

so have any of the problems mentioned by Chip and others been addressed or answered?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I answered all of them I thought?

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

so the 4 bolts are holding the whole of the corner of the car or they arent?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

That has already been answered .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes they are mate, I wouldnt have said they were if they werent.

And more importantly the only thing in turn holding those 4 bolts, is 4 ally threads.

Potentially lethal once they have been done up and undone over the years, which you have to do every time you adjust the mounts!

How the hell a "military of defence engineer" can miss something that basic, is fucking beyond me, cause im just a computer programmer who mainly writes financial software, with NO engineering training, and it was obvious to me!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Obviously I have suggested a simple and inexpensive solution to this in my previous replies .

JonnyBravo

Thanks for the reply to my question about the wrc mounts

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, James, I don't know .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes Mike, clearly YOU are the man, and it didnt take any prompting or advice from anyone else at all


Maybe next time, you should make suggestions to people BEFORE they fit potentially dangerous products you are retailing though!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

As you have CLEARLY posted within the thread, you only believe that this would be an issue once they were sold on second hand after being used repeatedly. Given ythe quality of the alloy and the thread pitch and bolts used, I didn't think this would be an issue. However, a simple change of bolting arrangement remedies any concerns, so I think your comments are a little unfair.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No, I said I thought it would be even worse after resale.

TBH even one bad over tightening, which any customer can potentially do, especially with an out of calibration torque wrench, it could happen sooner.

I find (especially now, after its all been discussed) your "oh well no big deal" attitude this fucking scarey from someone that I know people respect the advice of.

You dont seem to be taking this seriously enough AT ALL in my humble opinion.


For someone who spends 2 pages ranting and raving about if a dyno is TUEV approved or not, I would expect at least a passing interest in wether or not suspension components you are selling to people to put on high performance cars that will be driven hard, would be considered not safe by the same sort of inspection, as to me its a fucksite more important!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The reason is that all ten sets have been sold to people who have read this thread and taken the necessary action .

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Serious question Mike... Do you have public liability insurance??

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well thank fuck for me then eh Mike?

No problem, you dont need to say thanks, I know you mean it really

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Yes thanks .

Garage19

Mike,

For me this topic raises a different issue. I have always shyed away from fabricating any form of suspension component for people. My argument being that the cost of the apropriate/specific liability insurance i feel i would need to take out would far outway any profits.

I am aware companies such as ZOO probably traded with no insurance and (remarkaby - considering some of the serious failures of their products) got away with it. I don't think i would be happy with the risk. An action bought against a supplier/producer/fabricator by some one who had an accident due to their part failing could potentialy bankrupt even a wealthy gent like yourself.

How do you cope with this problem?

Doug.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well he's just the middle man, so probably shrugs and points them at the supplier

ian sibbert

Do these mounts come with an indemnity notice on them? Isn't it the usual way of evading prosecution, I think if I were a presiding judge on a damages claim and all the risks had been identified, then there would be little liability to be laid at either the manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer. Arn't most aftermarket products the same, small print somewhere which bascially passes liability onto the end user and he/she fits the components at their own risk and they are usually not recommended for road use...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Writing "not for road use" on the packaging helps a lot too!

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Thats cool Mike, but who wants to buy a product that they then have to modify themselves in order for it to be safe? I'm quite surprised you have your name on these considering the serious problems they could cause.

bigal1978

whats the diffrence here than on an old silver spirit ? that is twice as heavy twice the spring /shock blah blah

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1991-Rolls-Roy...3286.m14.l1318