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WARNING new cosworth oil pumps!!

Old 30-01-2008, 09:45 AM
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Default WARNING new cosworth oil pumps!!

car came back with low oil pressure and found this!

blew a blank out the side!

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now welded it back in

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Old 30-01-2008, 09:47 AM
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Are those the ones that joe stevens had made?
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Old 30-01-2008, 09:48 AM
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not sure it came from matt lewis
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Old 30-01-2008, 09:49 AM
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Did it cause low oil pressure for long enough to cause any other failure?
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Old 30-01-2008, 09:53 AM
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fucker. i need an oil pump as well.

what does matt charge for one? are there others available?
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Old 30-01-2008, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Did it cause low oil pressure for long enough to cause any other failure?

no luckily it was noticed early enough
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Old 30-01-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambchop
fucker. i need an oil pump as well.

what does matt charge for one? are there others available?
not sure i bought a few things from him at the time was a few months ago now
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Old 30-01-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewg
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Did it cause low oil pressure for long enough to cause any other failure?

no luckily it was noticed early enough
Lucky escape in the grand scheme of things then!

Thanks for sharing the warning, not the first oil pump failure on new cosowrth pumps ive heard of sadly though
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:02 AM
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so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:02 AM
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why is it so hard to get a proper/decent one? so many people rebuilding these engines too!
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:04 AM
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Could the pump not be sent back to Cosworth or get Matt to speak to Cosworth direct??

Didn't GGR have this problem a few years ago to......

Glad it didn't cause any problems to the engine Andrew.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:08 AM
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That could've been soooo much worse
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambchop
why is it so hard to get a proper/decent one? so many people rebuilding these engines too!
because folk cut the prices down that much that the quality workmanship required to make these parts flies out the window to save money,or they go to china and get stuff made out or recycled beer cans,
just like the various companies making copy group A 909 parts,the quality is pure shit and nothing like the originals.
the oil pump is your engines heart,and thus should be made as best as can be and not sold at cut prices.

rant over!!
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:10 AM
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Its a crap design in the first place IMHO, if I was ever building a really serious YB it would be straight onto a dry sump.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
big up matt lewis then eh.

we have not had a thread as titled today afterall!!
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
big up matt lewis then eh.

we have not had a thread as titled today afterall!!
I was referring to cosworth, not Matt, but im sure the same applies to him and all the other suppliers, they dont make enough money on pumps to be able to afford to cover the costs of a dead engien if they get no help from cosworth in doing so.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:12 AM
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FFS I hope mine will be ok! I got mine off Richie B9KOS as his got recalled by Cosworth (so he had to buy an additional from GGR) so I bought the new one Cosworth sent out....

We were talking to someone at Cosworth at the Ring last year, we slagged him off for the lack of oil pumps and questioned their design.

He said they'd been sorted.......... Obviously not unless this was part of the old batch (doubt it though as this was last year).
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
big up matt lewis then eh.

we have not had a thread as titled today afterall!!
I was referring to cosworth, not Matt, but im sure the same applies to him and all the other suppliers, they dont make enough money on pumps to be able to afford to cover the costs of a dead engien if they get no help from cosworth in doing so.
thats my point though,the pumps should be made better,and priced accordingly,the cut price buy one get one free shit is for supermarkets,not 5k engines!!
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:16 AM
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I agree totally, oil pumps arent where you want to be saviing 50 quid at the expense of quality.

Sadly, we are moving more and more towards a price driven market for building high power engines though, rather than a quality driven one.

Ive seen it massively in the Vauxhall scene as well for competition engines, a friend of mine who supplies a lot of motorsport cars is now selling 10:1 eagle rods versus arrows.

Why the hell would anyone want to save 500 quid on a set of rods that come with utterly no guarentees of their quality
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:24 AM
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so where can i get a new pump thats decent then?!?
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambchop
so where can i get a new pump thats decent then?!?
You cant guarentee that you can, thats the problem!

Everyone has done such a good job of dragging the price and quality down, that even the genuine cosworth ones are now unpredictable litter essentially.

Only what you can guarentee it IMHO is to buy a dry sump kit
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
big up matt lewis then eh.

we have not had a thread as titled today afterall!!

i'm sure its not his problem he can only sell what cosworth supply
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambchop
so where can i get a new pump thats decent then?!?
buy a good original ford one.even a used ones saffer than the shite being made new now!!and at least you can quickly check it inside for any damage before you buy/fit it.

and no i havnt got any for sale.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
I agree totally, oil pumps arent where you want to be saviing 50 quid at the expense of quality.

Sadly, we are moving more and more towards a price driven market for building high power engines though, rather than a quality driven one.

Ive seen it massively in the Vauxhall scene as well for competition engines, a friend of mine who supplies a lot of motorsport cars is now selling 10:1 eagle rods versus arrows.

Why the hell would anyone want to save 500 quid on a set of rods that come with utterly no guarentees of their quality
Its the vauxhall world Chip, were all tightarses

For what I need the Eagles are perfect, I couldn't justify buying a set of Arrows for a budget build, the Sainz rods I got seem to be superb quality but they are far too nice to go in the snot machine
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Lambchop
so where can i get a new pump thats decent then?!?
You cant guarentee that you can, thats the problem!

Everyone has done such a good job of dragging the price and quality down, that even the genuine cosworth ones are now unpredictable litter essentially.

Only what you can guarentee it IMHO is to buy a dry sump kit
fuck sake

well im not going dry sump so which do i bloody well choose? i need someone to blame
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambchop
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Lambchop
so where can i get a new pump thats decent then?!?
You cant guarentee that you can, thats the problem!

Everyone has done such a good job of dragging the price and quality down, that even the genuine cosworth ones are now unpredictable litter essentially.

Only what you can guarentee it IMHO is to buy a dry sump kit
fuck sake

well im not going dry sump so which do i bloody well choose? i need someone to blame
As far as im aware, a cosworth pump is your ONLY option, and NO ONE you buy it from (including cosworth) will give you anything other than a limited warranty where they are only liable for cost of replacement part, not cost of any other damage it does.

So you are fucked either way, just buy one and hope for the best, like everyone else has to basically
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewg
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
big up matt lewis then eh.

we have not had a thread as titled today afterall!!

i'm sure its not his problem he can only sell what cosworth supply
was tongue in cheek andrew,but its the suppliers who are partially to blame for the spiralling fall in quality due to trying to be the cheapest!

buy a loaf of asdas own bread,its a similar situation.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Lambchop
so where can i get a new pump thats decent then?!?
buy a good original ford one.even a used ones saffer than the shite being made new now!!and at least you can quickly check it inside for any damage before you buy/fit it.

and no i havnt got any for sale.
bloody hell.

i was only buying a new one to be on the safe side.

i have 1 melted engine with unknown used pump in. other engine is knocking and unsure of the problem. when its ripped apart i wanted to use a new pump for peace of mind

so can they be checked over/serviced?
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:37 AM
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The idea of using a used one is a good one, its easy to check condition of a secondhand pump but not easy to check the manufacture of a new one.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by andrewg
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by Cosworth Rallyesport
so if one of these fails and wrecks an engine where does that leave the supplier?in the shit legally i suspect!

at least the genuine ford ones dont do this eh!

Limited liability is the key here, they will only refund up to a maximum of the price paid for the pump they dont accept responsibility for any damage done.
big up matt lewis then eh.

we have not had a thread as titled today afterall!!

i'm sure its not his problem he can only sell what cosworth supply
was tongue in cheek andrew,but its the suppliers who are partially to blame for the spiralling fall in quality due to trying to be the cheapest!

buy a loaf of asdas own bread,its a similar situation.


i know what your sayin but there this is cheaper copy's out there you would think coming from cosworth it would be a quality product
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
The idea of using a used one is a good one, its easy to check condition of a secondhand pump but not easy to check the manufacture of a new one.
ok fair play. right excuse my COMPLETE lack of knowledge here. what exactly is there to check over and can bits be replaced? Having never seen one or having no clue about them i dont know! apparently the one in my complete but knocking engine was a 4x4 oil pump which had been "uprated" to high pressure. is it common to do this and uprate?
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:43 AM
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I lost my engine and brand new turbo due to oil pump.

Done all the bearings, crank, rings and took out a Brand new T34 with a GT compressor wheel in worth about £600

Cost me 2K
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasesapphy
I lost my engine and brand new turbo due to oil pump.

Done all the bearings, crank, rings and took out a Brand new T34 with a GT compressor wheel in worth about £600

Cost me 2K
OUCH!

this is what im scared of

car goes away tonight to get resurrected and more problems would NOT be nice!
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:48 AM
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pump had only done 6K, and was new cosworth one with repceipt and date fitted, cost £190 at the time (high Pressure pump)
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Lambchop
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
The idea of using a used one is a good one, its easy to check condition of a secondhand pump but not easy to check the manufacture of a new one.
ok fair play. right excuse my COMPLETE lack of knowledge here. what exactly is there to check over and can bits be replaced? Having never seen one or having no clue about them i dont know! apparently the one in my complete but knocking engine was a 4x4 oil pump which had been "uprated" to high pressure. is it common to do this and uprate?

The "uprating" is normally just a case of replacing the spring with a heavier one, so that it holds more pressure, I personalyl view that as a bad idea though.

If you pull it apart, you can check the play in it with a feeler gauge, and more important do a visual inspection of it, if there is no scoring its highly unlikely to have any problems.

I would recomend letting someone who knows what they are doing look at it for you though on such a vital component.
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:55 AM
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Probably a stupid question but can they be re-conditioned?
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Old 30-01-2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
If you pull it apart, you can check the play in it with a feeler gauge, and more important do a visual inspection of it, if there is no scoring its highly unlikely to have any problems.

I would recomend letting someone who knows what they are doing look at it for you though on such a vital component.
Ok cheers. I have my local RS guru, Mr RS Toughy on hand for offering technical advice if/when required
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Old 30-01-2008, 11:10 AM
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Just to make you aware that the pump pictured is actually better MADE than the OE pump, as it is machined from a billet rather than cast. Therefore the tolerances are a LOT better than the original cast ones and they don't have the same high temperature expansion issues (which causes a drop in pressure on the original pumps at high oil temps). This means that the new ones have more consistent oil pressures and give an increase in pressure purely from their better tolerances.

HOWEVER, it looks as though there is a design flaw in the machining work that means that the casing is not rigid enough to take the increased pressure?

I have sent this link to Jeremy at Cosworth in the hope that they can get the design updated or to see if it is a one-off that got over-machined in a critical strength area?
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Old 30-01-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Just to make you aware that the pump pictured is actually better MADE than the OE pump, as it is machined from a billet rather than cast. Therefore the tolerances are a LOT better than the original cast ones and they don't have the same high temperature expansion issues (which causes a drop in pressure on the original pumps at high oil temps). This means that the new ones have more consistent oil pressures and give an increase in pressure purely from their better tolerances.

HOWEVER, it looks as though there is a design flaw in the machining work that means that the casing is not rigid enough to take the increased pressure?

I have sent this link to Jeremy at Cosworth in the hope that they can get the design updated or to see if it is a one-off that got over-machined in a critical strength area?
says the man that sells them!!!

nice sales pitch,you offering guarantees then mike?

how the hell can you say its better made when you look at andrews photos?take your selling head off for a minute.
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