Neil S

iTrader: (1)

I'm moving some wiring about in preparation for fitting my new kitchen.

The downstairs lighting circuit is a bit strange. I can't quite get my head around it and was hoping someone might be able to shed a bit of light ( ) on the matter.

Kitchen ceiling rose is the first light on the circuit, from here the wiring runs to the front room and then to the porch. There are no other devices on this circuit.

I've got 1.5mm T&E coming into the kitchen ceiling rose, but what appears to be a cable with only a live and an earth in it running into the front room

WTF is this all about? The wire that runs to the porch is T&E (although the porch is newer than the house), where does the front room light pick up its neutral from? (Circuit appears to be radial rather than ring)

More importantly: Do I need to do anything about it (like replace with T&E), or can it just be left?

Cheers!

Neil.

stevenebm

iTrader: (6)

hmm strange.maybe someone has bodged it and just using the earth as a nuetral since they have the same potential me gettin aw geeky there

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

That was what my first thought was but I can't get my head around it, or see it being fair game (even in the '70s when the house was built).

This is an actual cable TYPE - i.e. there are only 2 conductors in the sheath - a red live and an uninsulated earth.

Just re-terminating it into a junction box now. Got plenty of new cable but no way i can be arsed cutting boards upstairs to get access to replace it

Unless of course it has to be removed?

Cheers!

Neil.

StephenC

so the wire coming into the room (just 1 core and 1 uninsulated), what is it like at the light switch?

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

T&E at the switch Stephen.

It's T&E from the consumer unit to the kitchen fitting.

The outgoing cable (to the front room ceiling rose) is Live & Earth only.

From the Front Room to the porch is back to T&E (although this wiring is probably newer than the rest of the house).

I'm struggling to see how the front room fitting gets its Neutral connection, unless the T&E that I *think* goes to the porch actually goes back to the consumer unit.

I was just curious having never seen or heard of this type of cable

focusv8

Single red and earth and single black or black and earth, was widely used before Loop in ceiling roses were used.

What is the single red/earth connected to in the kitchen?
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Brasso

Sounds like its been bodged then mate and the earth of the single core and earth has been used as a neutral if theres deffo no other cable at the rose (how is it connected? Live to live and bare earth to neutral of the flex?) . Probally JB'd somewhere. Been known before.

Knock off the main isolator run a flying lead from the last known neutral and use a continuity tester to prove it.

focusv8

I've seen twin and earth with the earth sleeved and used as a 3 core.

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Brasso

Me too! bodgin twats. It works so its safe!

focusv8

I like it when people want to know how a 2 way switch can have;

Red
Black
Red
Yellow
Blue
and Work!!

Still that'll be:

Brown
Blue
Brown
Grey
Black, now

Or any combination of the above 2 lists
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Neil S

If you can post a list of cables / colours in Kitchen, Front room, and porch both in the light/ceiling rose and in the switches, we might be able to figure it out.



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Neil S

iTrader: (1)

The cable in question runs between the kitchen and living room. It's connectivity is Red-to-phase and sleeved earth-to-earth at both ends of the cable.

Everything else is T&E, including every switch on the downstairs lighting circuit. I'm sure it's not a 'bodge' - this part of the wiring it will have been untouched since the house was built, it's just something I haven't seen before (sounds like you have though! )

The only thing I can't figure out is where the neutral in the porch and living room comes from, as it sure as shit isn't coming from the kitchen. It must go back to the consumer unit somehow, but I'm not sure how

I've done the work I needed to do now, but is there any regulation that says I must remove it if any work is being carried out involving it, or can it stay put?

Cheers!

Neil.

focusv8

As long as the cable is left "safe" i.e bare ends not showing, in a connector or junction box, no problem.

Ideally all unknown cable ends should be connected to earth, so if the other ends are accidentally made live they will blow a fuse or trip a breaker.
It may have been first fixed (cables run) by one sparky who had a particular plan and second fixed (final connections) by another who had a different plan.

Just a thought, do you have wall lights in the living room?

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dojj

iTrader: (3)

do both lights come on at the same time then?

from what you say it sounds as if they've just run a feed to the addition and possibly put a switch in there somewhere if it's on a seperate switch

ifyou can live with it not being a problem then i'd leave it alone

unles it needs to be removed and made safe

rssteve

id guess they have stolen a neutral from another circuit, Simple test would be to remove the neutral for that one circuit from the fuse board and turn power back on. if the lights still work in porching and living room then they have nicked a neutral from another circuit which is not safe as somecome could get a shock from said circuit when its switched off.