200 blocks
19-09-2007, 01:02 PM
#4
Originally Posted by gingeRS
as far as i know if its on a 2wd it makes no odds as to whether you use a 205 or 200 block for decent power??
?4x4 blocks are stronger and will be a better base for big power. Unfortunately there were some 4x4 blocks floating around that Cosworth had made in Turkey that are not up to the strength of the original blocks, hence why even the 4x4 ones started to get a bad rep for cracking.
19-09-2007, 01:25 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
4x4 blocks are stronger and will be a better base for big power.
i'm just curious....i am not clued up on this
19-09-2007, 01:48 PM
#6
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[quote="Mike Rainbird"]
If that is the case - why has his 2wd one broken ?
quote]
maybe he used it on a 4x4
Originally Posted by gingeRS
as far as i know if its on a 2wd it makes no odds as to whether you use a 205 or 200 block for decent power??
?quote]
maybe he used it on a 4x4
20-09-2007, 04:41 PM
#7
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Ehh everybody knows that 200 are stronger and that's why ford made them to replace the old 205 as they where origanaly inteded to be used on pinto's ! The 205 just cracked from the bore just after runned in the quarter mile 10 runs with 26psi on a T4. apriciate anyone who can help a second hand 200 will be fine as well. Thanks
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21-09-2007, 11:31 AM
#9
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How is it possible that no one in the uk is not interested in making 200blocks with maybe stronger casing????!!!! If cosworth stopped making them someone else should take over!
21-09-2007, 02:16 PM
#10
Because the wankers at Ford destroyed the moulds 
, so Cosworth would have to reverse engineer all the moulds etc, and this has been costed at Ł300k for just a run of 200 at COST to Cosworth. This works out at Ł1,500 a block. Obviously they're going to want to earn something out of it, which would mean cost to customer of at least Ł1,800. Who is going to pay Ł1800 for a standard block, when you can Nikasil liner a second hand one for LESS?
Accordingly there is no intention what-so-ever at this moment in time to remanufacture the 200 block.
, so Cosworth would have to reverse engineer all the moulds etc, and this has been costed at Ł300k for just a run of 200 at COST to Cosworth. This works out at Ł1,500 a block. Obviously they're going to want to earn something out of it, which would mean cost to customer of at least Ł1,800. Who is going to pay Ł1800 for a standard block, when you can Nikasil liner a second hand one for LESS? Accordingly there is no intention what-so-ever at this moment in time to remanufacture the 200 block
.
21-09-2007, 03:20 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by gingeRS
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
4x4 blocks are stronger and will be a better base for big power.
i'm just curious....i am not clued up on this
Some say its actually larger around the bores, others say its just cast thicker around where the front diff would bolt on.
Karl Norris has apparently done some extensive research into it which is why he doesn't use long studs iirc
I personally would like to see some actual proof of what the differences are.
If the 200 is no better than a 200 block then why bother fitting Nikasil liners into a 200 when you can save yourself Ł800 and put them in a shonky old 205 block ?
21-09-2007, 03:24 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Unfortunately there were some 4x4 blocks floating around that Cosworth had made in Turkey that are not up to the strength of the original blocks, hence why even the 4x4 ones started to get a bad rep for cracking.
Yep I bought one made in Turkey & it proved to be weak, warping on the Dyno at a mere 741bhp/644 ft-lb. By the way the Turkish blocks have 99 cast on the side if you want to know if you have one.
21-09-2007, 05:35 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by JonnyBravo
Originally Posted by gingeRS
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
4x4 blocks are stronger and will be a better base for big power.
i'm just curious....i am not clued up on this
Some say its actually larger around the bores, others say its just cast thicker around where the front diff would bolt on.
Karl Norris has apparently done some extensive research into it which is why he doesn't use long studs iirc
I personally would like to see some actual proof of what the differences are.
If the 200 is no better than a 200 block then why bother fitting Nikasil liners into a 200 when you can save yourself Ł800 and put them in a shonky old 205 block ?
21-09-2007, 05:42 PM
#17
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To quote norris motorsport i think that this answers the question
The 2.0 16v YBB engine has been around for sometime now and was available in several different forms as the years went by. (Designated, YBB, YBD, YBP, YBT, etc) There are certain cylinder heads that are preferable to use over others due to their increased stiffness and improved water ways, and NMS can advise the best route to follow. Likewise the earlier YBB engines used a "205" block derived from the 2.0 Pinto. This unit is capable of handling up to 350bhp but this is dependant on block casting quality (i.e. due to core shift) and bore size (i.e. the block is weakened by overboring). When I specify a 300+bhp engine I always advise the use of the later "200" block which incorporated additional reinforcement around the block sump face webs and block bore casting as well as some other minor block revisions.
The 2.0 16v YBB engine has been around for sometime now and was available in several different forms as the years went by. (Designated, YBB, YBD, YBP, YBT, etc) There are certain cylinder heads that are preferable to use over others due to their increased stiffness and improved water ways, and NMS can advise the best route to follow. Likewise the earlier YBB engines used a "205" block derived from the 2.0 Pinto. This unit is capable of handling up to 350bhp but this is dependant on block casting quality (i.e. due to core shift) and bore size (i.e. the block is weakened by overboring). When I specify a 300+bhp engine I always advise the use of the later "200" block which incorporated additional reinforcement around the block sump face webs and block bore casting as well as some other minor block revisions.
21-09-2007, 05:51 PM
#18
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Stu's words iirc, however I have been told otherwise so I don't know who to believe
Funny as everyone seems to be very secretive about it, a bit like when my engine turned out it had a cracked block a few thousand miles after being built, no one wanted to say it was built wrong where IMO it clearly was.
I can't see how else a block can fail across a bolt hole except for the ARP's as Mike has mentioned.
Back on topic though, with all the so called knowledge on here nobody actually seems to know what the differences are with the block
Funny as everyone seems to be very secretive about it, a bit like when my engine turned out it had a cracked block a few thousand miles after being built, no one wanted to say it was built wrong where IMO it clearly was.
I can't see how else a block can fail across a bolt hole except for the ARP's as Mike has mentioned.
Back on topic though, with all the so called knowledge on here nobody actually seems to know what the differences are with the block
21-09-2007, 05:53 PM
#19
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So what Karl says then goes along with what I was told about the bore casting.
What Karl said about long studs was interesting although that is a different matter.
What Karl said about long studs was interesting although that is a different matter.
21-09-2007, 06:39 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by MadRod
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Unfortunately there were some 4x4 blocks floating around that Cosworth had made in Turkey that are not up to the strength of the original blocks, hence why even the 4x4 ones started to get a bad rep for cracking.
Yep I bought one made in Turkey & it proved to be weak, warping on the Dyno at a mere 741bhp/644 ft-lb. By the way the Turkish blocks have 99 cast on the side if you want to know if you have one.My block was brand new about 2 years ago.
I will need to check the cast on the side...
21-09-2007, 07:12 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by SilverBullet
cheers jonny bravo 
Just had read through again and its a shame that the thread went the way it did as clearly Karl knows something that a few others would rather not disclose (sp)
Still going to long stud myself as its not gone wrong for anyone else but I will ask my tuner about what Karl has found out
21-09-2007, 07:43 PM
#26
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My buisiness partner runs 400bhp on his saph with a 205 block with standard head bolts and its run like this for about 9 years and it was built by castle performance back in the day
24-09-2007, 09:42 AM
#27
Originally Posted by SilverBullet
My buisiness partner runs 400bhp on his saph with a 205 block with standard head bolts and its run like this for about 9 years and it was built by castle performance back in the day
.
24-09-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MadRod
Yep I bought one made in Turkey & it proved to be weak, warping on the Dyno at a mere 741bhp/644 ft-lb. By the way the Turkish blocks have 99 cast on the side if you want to know if you have one.
24-09-2007, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rapidcossie
99 like on the bottom left corner of mine
24-09-2007, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by WD Pro
But at what power are they 'weak' ? Rods power level is quite extreme
Rods power level is quite extreme
24-09-2007, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by saffsta
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
99 like on the bottom left corner of mine
We will have to keep any eye on rapidcossie's and use his as the test mule
Saffsta - what power are you running ?
24-09-2007, 01:13 PM
#38
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Euan - Rod isn't the first to have problems with the crap blocks.
They fail in different ways from what I have been told.
One that I know my enegine builder had seen had torn the front of the block off around the water pump, like TiB's but his wasn't a crap block.
They fail in different ways from what I have been told.
One that I know my enegine builder had seen had torn the front of the block off around the water pump, like TiB's but his wasn't a crap block.
24-09-2007, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by WD Pro
Originally Posted by saffsta
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
99 like on the bottom left corner of mine
We will have to keep any eye on rapidcossie's and use his as the test mule
Saffsta - what power are you running ?
Oh, and mine did 701.5 brake and 576.6lb-ft