why is long studding bad?
#1
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why is long studding bad?
as i just rang a compenay up and they said they don't reccommend it and i should not do and when i said why, they said lots of reasons so can anyone tell me what is bad about it as i thought is was best way to go
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Why did they say it was bad.?
Post the reasons and we will tell you if they talking crap or not.
I had mine done and it was the way to go, makes the gasket sit flush when fitting the head and stops the risk of the head distorting under large load.
Everybody is going to have a mixed opinion. Steve Scott advised me to do it so I did when he built my engine. If its good enough for him then it was good enough for me.
Post the reasons and we will tell you if they talking crap or not.
I had mine done and it was the way to go, makes the gasket sit flush when fitting the head and stops the risk of the head distorting under large load.
Everybody is going to have a mixed opinion. Steve Scott advised me to do it so I did when he built my engine. If its good enough for him then it was good enough for me.
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#8
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Originally Posted by col cos1
i know the reason
cause the guy you spoke to is a fuckin idiot
cause the guy you spoke to is a fuckin idiot
er no he is not hence the reason i am confused
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If he is not, why are you asking for further advice on here?
If I wish to know someting engine wise and speak to Steve, I dont then question his reply on a forum and make him look an idiot.
Doesnt really make sense does it.
If he is not a cock then maybe you have misunderstood his answers, for example maybe longstudding is not needed in your case.
If I wish to know someting engine wise and speak to Steve, I dont then question his reply on a forum and make him look an idiot.
Doesnt really make sense does it.
If he is not a cock then maybe you have misunderstood his answers, for example maybe longstudding is not needed in your case.
#10
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not tryin to make any one look an idiot i have always been led to belive that long studding your block is the best way to go as every top car you see seems to have it done so when i call a well known tuner up and ask if he can do this and he says no cos we don't reccomend it don't do it i thought i would try and find other peoples views on it ,
#11
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Had all my engines long studded with no probs are you sure you or he has not got mixed up with stud and nut kit as many people do not like these but if you are going to run high boost i would have it done cheers james
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Originally Posted by saph4be
not tryin to make any one look an idiot i have always been led to belive that long studding your block is the best way to go as every top car you see seems to have it done so when i call a well known tuner up and ask if he can do this and he says no cos we don't reccomend it don't do it i thought i would try and find other peoples views on it ,
Either way I think you need to ask them again.
#13
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Originally Posted by ellicoss
Had all my engines long studded with no probs are you sure you or he has not got mixed up with stud and nut kit as many people do not like these but if you are going to run high boost i would have it done cheers james
no cos i said machine the block to except long studs
#15
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Originally Posted by COMEDY DAN
Originally Posted by saph4be
not tryin to make any one look an idiot i have always been led to belive that long studding your block is the best way to go as every top car you see seems to have it done so when i call a well known tuner up and ask if he can do this and he says no cos we don't reccomend it don't do it i thought i would try and find other peoples views on it ,
Either way I think you need to ask them again.
no he can't do it and said he does not know anyone who can do it then he said i would not do it if i were you , so if any one knows a reason why not to long stud the block please enlighten me cos that is all i asked in first place
#27
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Dingy said he wouldnt long stud if he was doing his engine again. I know he uses Karl but dont know if his opinion was influenced by him.
I dont think people say long studding is shit, i just hear people saying its not neccasery and a waste of time.
I dont think people say long studding is shit, i just hear people saying its not neccasery and a waste of time.
#28
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What did the wrc engines use ?
Everyone has their own opinion which is fair enough.
Personally I wouldn't use A1 after the shit rebuilt engine they sold a mate of mine
Everyone has their own opinion which is fair enough.
Personally I wouldn't use A1 after the shit rebuilt engine they sold a mate of mine
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I hope this thread isnt going to go the way i think it may go
Would also be intrested to hear Karl's opinions on long studs, must say
Karl knows his stuff when it comes to how the cossie engine works
and what works and what doesnt work
Would also be intrested to hear Karl's opinions on long studs, must say
Karl knows his stuff when it comes to how the cossie engine works
and what works and what doesnt work
#32
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There is such a ongoing argument to what the difference between the 205 block and 200 block is.
I have been guaranteed that there is a lot more than just extra webbing at the bottom as I have heard said before.
Even with the few years that I have had a interest in Cosworths I like others can think of a fair few 500+ hp engines that were built from 200 blocks with long studs and haven't failed, and thats just local to me.
Funny how all of a sudden everyone is on the bandwagon saying that 200 blocks are crap, long studs dont work etc.. yet for the last 20 years people have been using them with no problem whatsoever. (apparently)
IMO there is a lot more people around these days willing to build you a big power YB when in reality only 3/10 of all the tuners actually know what their talking about.
Apparently anyone these days can build you a reliable 500hp Yb for less than the next tuner
I have been guaranteed that there is a lot more than just extra webbing at the bottom as I have heard said before.
Even with the few years that I have had a interest in Cosworths I like others can think of a fair few 500+ hp engines that were built from 200 blocks with long studs and haven't failed, and thats just local to me.
Funny how all of a sudden everyone is on the bandwagon saying that 200 blocks are crap, long studs dont work etc.. yet for the last 20 years people have been using them with no problem whatsoever. (apparently)
IMO there is a lot more people around these days willing to build you a big power YB when in reality only 3/10 of all the tuners actually know what their talking about.
Apparently anyone these days can build you a reliable 500hp Yb for less than the next tuner
#33
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Originally Posted by JonnyBravo
What did the wrc engines use ?
Everyone has their own opinion which is fair enough.
Personally I wouldn't use A1 after the shit rebuilt engine they sold a mate of mine
Everyone has their own opinion which is fair enough.
Personally I wouldn't use A1 after the shit rebuilt engine they sold a mate of mine
#34
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Originally Posted by JonnyBravo
There is such a ongoing argument to what the difference between the 205 block and 200 block is.
I have been guaranteed that there is a lot more than just extra webbing at the bottom as I have heard said before.
Even with the few years that I have had a interest in Cosworths I like others can think of a fair few 500+ hp engines that were built from 200 blocks with long studs and haven't failed, and thats just local to me.
Funny how all of a sudden everyone is on the bandwagon saying that 200 blocks are crap, long studs dont work etc.. yet for the last 20 years people have been using them with no problem whatsoever. (apparently)
IMO there is a lot more people around these days willing to build you a big power YB when in reality only 3/10 of all the tuners actually know what their talking about.
Apparently anyone these days can build you a reliable 500hp Yb for less than the next tuner
I have been guaranteed that there is a lot more than just extra webbing at the bottom as I have heard said before.
Even with the few years that I have had a interest in Cosworths I like others can think of a fair few 500+ hp engines that were built from 200 blocks with long studs and haven't failed, and thats just local to me.
Funny how all of a sudden everyone is on the bandwagon saying that 200 blocks are crap, long studs dont work etc.. yet for the last 20 years people have been using them with no problem whatsoever. (apparently)
IMO there is a lot more people around these days willing to build you a big power YB when in reality only 3/10 of all the tuners actually know what their talking about.
Apparently anyone these days can build you a reliable 500hp Yb for less than the next tuner
Stick with tried and tesetd methods that have proven to work
#35
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I have heard of a 750bhp mk2 using arp stud and nut
I know of 500bhp 205 blocks runing arp stud and nut and standard bolts
I know of 200 blocks long studded 500bhp
My rs500 205 block let go at 400bhp on standard head bolts.
There is no set proof as to whats better a 205 block can last as long as a 200 block at the same power levels, just like a 200 block can fail at less than some 205 blocks. I honestly think its purel down to luck of the draw at big power and tuners just speak from there own experiences and maybe Karls experiences have been that long studding just snt necasery so he just advises against it.
To sum up what i'm trying to say 500bhp through ANY 20 year old engine is a lottery
I know of 500bhp 205 blocks runing arp stud and nut and standard bolts
I know of 200 blocks long studded 500bhp
My rs500 205 block let go at 400bhp on standard head bolts.
There is no set proof as to whats better a 205 block can last as long as a 200 block at the same power levels, just like a 200 block can fail at less than some 205 blocks. I honestly think its purel down to luck of the draw at big power and tuners just speak from there own experiences and maybe Karls experiences have been that long studding just snt necasery so he just advises against it.
To sum up what i'm trying to say 500bhp through ANY 20 year old engine is a lottery
#36
long studding and the multi layer head gasket were used on WRC engines......because of the high compression and needing to keep the head on at 3bar plus boost spike!...This was used in conjuction with nikasil liners..to put the strength back to the bore walls.
Touring cars did not run long stud.
500bhp + cars do NOT need long studding....650plus you need to start thinking due to boost figures and flow.
HTH
Touring cars did not run long stud.
500bhp + cars do NOT need long studding....650plus you need to start thinking due to boost figures and flow.
HTH
#37
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according to AB one of the raesons for long studding is to reduce bore distortion when clamping down the head. some tuners - GGR is one - use a torque plate for this purpose. in USA most good tuning shops appear to use torque plates even for NA. with turbo the potential for blow by must increase
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My engine is not long studded, and neither is Karl's.
I had a 6 long stud engine, and a 10 long stud engine, and both suffered head gasket failure, and when the studs were measured, they were all different lengths.
I have had no trouble whatsoever with standard head bolts.
I understand the physics behind Karl's logic here, and will never have another block long studded.
Like Karl said, don't do it.
I had a 6 long stud engine, and a 10 long stud engine, and both suffered head gasket failure, and when the studs were measured, they were all different lengths.
I have had no trouble whatsoever with standard head bolts.
I understand the physics behind Karl's logic here, and will never have another block long studded.
Like Karl said, don't do it.
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Originally Posted by PGT
according to AB one of the raesons for long studding is to reduce bore distortion when clamping down the head. some tuners - GGR is one - use a torque plate for this purpose. in USA most good tuning shops appear to use torque plates even for NA. with turbo the potential for blow by must increase