Karl

Interesting post! D Amazing how old wives tales keep on going!

I personally do NOT recommend long studding.

This does not mean I never do long stud, as several of my engines I have built over the years, I have long studded.

Bore distortion with using head bolts is total nonsence as my blocks are all torque bored.

Long studding the 200 block is pointless because the centre pair of bolts screw into full height internal pillars meaning long studding involves machining down the centre of the full height of the internal pillar. This weakens the block! TOTALLY POINTLESS!

The std head bolts also give a more reliable and superior clamp than the usual mountune style studs. This I have extensively tested (using proper engineering tests) and hence is not just "my opinion" but a FACT I have proven to myself!

In addition a long studded block often suffers with deck face distortion. This is nearly always proved when I have to machine the deck face of a used long studded block. It nearly always has a low section running length ways centrally down the block, indicating the block walls are rising relative to the main bearing saddles. This causes low spots and loss of clamping bewteen cylinders where the head gasket is thinnest!! NOT GOOD!

The only issue with using std head bolts is when encountering cracking around the 2nd or 4th pair of head studs. In this case long studding is necessary in order to save the block.

My own engine and 90% of customer engines all use std head bolts, but of course a few of my engines do use long studs for various reasons!

Suffice to say if you call me up and ask do I recommend them, you will be told I don't recommend it, however on occasions I do long stud!

Hope that clarifies that one!

PGT

sorry i think you dont understand. the point is that the localised loading around the standard holes which are just below the block face can cause bore distortion which is alleviated by long studding as this load is moved the lower part of the block. this means that, as a by product of long studding, there is no need to use a torque plate when boring. as Karl pointed out he always uses a torque plate anyway so presumably he does not encounter this particular problem. the comment about block distortion was, in any event, made to me by no less an expert than Ahmed Bayjoo (who was not trying to sell me anything) so to you

COMEDY DAN

I thought you didnt like this place and were staying away because you didnt get your free NMS banner karl??

Just an observation.

Bet you glad your profile wasnt deleted like you asked for mate.

This place comes in handy sometimes hey.

Karl

Dan, how does this place come in handy, I don't ask for advice do I...........................I give advice.

I use this site so infrequently feel free to delete my profile mate. Is'nt me who loses out by not posting, but those who benefit from good advice!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Schoolboy shot from you Dan at someone coming on here and usefully and helpfully posting grown up advice, I think thats a real shame.


I would just like to thank Karl for his interesting and informative post in this thread based on years of experience that he didnt have to share and most of us wont ever have first hand so wouldnt know about if he hadnt done so.

Alps Pacino

Chip-3Door

Agreed its nice to hear from someone who has actually tested and proven something and not just follows the trend of what everyone presumes to be true. I would also like to hear his views on the difference between the 200 and 205 blocks if he's done any research on that area

Karl

205 and 200 blocks, now there is a topic I could write an essay about. However as Dan is a school boy, I shall refrain from helping. Minority spoil it for the rest im affraid.

Alps Pacino

On a serious note if you would be as kind as to pm a mega simple description i would be mucho apreciated. Its a subject that many claim to know about but realy dont and have done no research on the subject imo

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

do it karl id like to see your views on it

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Lets not sink to the level of whoever happens to be spitting their dummy furthest in a thread or we'll all end up in the muppet room.

I would be interested to hear your views on it, as I suspect would Dan once he has chilled out

Alps Pacino

JayCos

Its the 1 debate i would love to see have some light shed on it, so much wank is spouted by so many numptys on the subject its untrue

Karl

Jay,

As much as I would actually like to help, I am bitter that people do not appreciate my help, and would rather me have to pay as a trader on here. I am one of the few people who have YEARS of experience of building hundreds of engines, yet I am rediculed over a signature that is a down right insult to my knowledge.

However we've covered this issue enough, and yourself and Stu pissed on my bonfire. As such all I can do is choose to be less helpfull than I can be.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Karl, your dummy flew 17 feet, but dan's was 18 feet so he is still in the lead just at the moment, would you like another go in the spitting contest, or would you rather just post some of your well respected knowledge to those of us who appreciate it?

Id certainly prefer the latter, irrelevant of what your signature is or isnt

Alps Pacino

Karl

I appeciate it, dont discriminate against me i'm a nice boy

Micky

You see,this is why Passionford is a great site,people who have spent time and money giving their advice for free (Thanks Karl ),only for the bickering to start and put off those who have genuine advice (everyone will know the peps I mean ).Such a shame the way this site swings from good positive posts to negative posts in the blink of an eye!! Regards,Micky

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

wonderfull reply karl nice to see that you blame me for protecting paying traders who pay for the privalige to advertise here

for the record wasnt asking for you help just asking for your views but should of known better

Karl

No chip the answer is no. I'm pissed off that again people try to ridicule me because they hide behind their computers. Respect is free, but clearly not given here on this site very often!

Not one person on this site would argue with me in person, yet would happily argue black is white on this site!

I have my reasons why I'm pissed off and it goes deeper than just my signature. Let that be the end on this matter.

Alps Pacino

Fair play

Karl

Jaycos,

Regardless of what people think, (I'm sure people will read this as arrogance) but why should I help people with good advice, when I am actively rediculed by people for wanting a NMS signature. It is a tiny price to pay for having a pro's advice, but I resent the attitude on here. Traders may pay to advertise, but I am not a normal trader am I. I am a tuner who knows more about tuning FORD's than normal traders who sell parts etc. I am here to help, NOT sell parts, but as you so clearly told me, pay the 200+vet trader fee!

Pissed off................you bet, its a F~cking insult!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

With regards to Dan's post, if you do the whole "thats it im leaving" thing on a forum, its fairly normal for someone to take a pop shot on the way back in, the trick is to not bother saying that in the first place, just come and go as suits you at the time

I hope whatever your other grievances are can be sorted, as this site is certainly a better place when people like yourself and TSM and Stu kindly choose to share your experiences with those of us who arent ever going to get that experience first hand in such detail.

Karl

Yes your right chip, I shall return to the woodwork from where I crawled. LOL

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I can see both sides of the argument, one of the things you sell is your expertise, people can buy parts anywhere but would sooner buy them from an expert such as yourself in lots of cases, I personally know people who have bought chips or maps off you based largely on an opinion of you formed from this site, likewise your cylinder heads etc have a fantastic reputation backed up by things like the expert advice you give on here, so its easy to understand why the rules have to be applied to you as wether you are actually intentionally trying to attract customers with your posts or not, the result IMHO is that you undoubtabley still do.

However, personally I think its a real fucking shame if it stops you posting useful info here, cause I have always enjoyed reading your input into threads.

Shings

I argue with you- but you always bloody win and I have to make the tea.... or buy the biscuits...



PS-

We still have to race my car and yours

French shit Vs French shit

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

then i m as thick as pig shit then but at the same time have the itelegence to insult you with out knowing ive done it

you wasnt insulted by any means as the rules are as a trader I.E SUPPLY/ENGINEERING/TUNER/VALET/PAINTER ECT if you want a advert here sig or banner you have to pay ,its a rule for everyone if we treat you different then its not fair to other's .As said before karl you have enough of your followers with sigs usernames to promote your company and i should imagine you would have to live in planet mare not realise who the mighty karl norris is so i dont see how you have a issue with it unlees you feel you have lost something to your gain ?

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

i enjoy reading threadspeoples who know what there talking about especaily when its tried and tested but this is like holding the site to ransome in childish manner (if you dont do this i wont do that )

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

anyway been through all this before and it change anything rules are still here and your still bitter ! well glad you have someone to blame might help that bitter feeling drift a little away sleep well karl

Karl

Jay,

Its about respect. I made it quite clear I was'nt here to sell anything. I resent the big brother control. Its a website, nothing more. I do not wish to pay a trader fee as I have nothing to sell here. What started as a method of preventing fake traders acting as bona-fide traders has actually become a money making excercise. NOw the enforcement of the signature rule is about paying £200. This is the insulting part. Pay £200 or else you cannot be identified as Karl Norris at NMS.

However yourself and Stu see my views differently, and as I resent this I choose not to help much. Childish, YES, but its the principle, simply because I refuse to line someone elses pocket, for no gain.

neilm

Hang on a mo...

Karl is giving advice based on his experience and he is giving that freely to help others.

To then have to pay £200 for the privilege of helping others, half of which just want to take the piss... how is Karl holding anyone to ransome.


Knowledge and experience have a value, thats how consultants make money.

Why should Karl have to pay to give you his advice, you should pay him, and the same with Stu and any other person who 'gives' something to the site

JonnyBravo

No disrespect mate but your far from the only one in the uk with a genuine 500hp on a T4, not everyone believes in having to have their car on the rollers every month or at top speed events just to prove their point

As I said I can think of a few cars round my way running touring car engines, they might not get used much but they WILL be running over 500hp.

I certainly don't dispute that quite a few people with a T4 assume they have 500hp though.

Karl- Thanks for the imformative reply, I do not doubt your knowledge one bit and I have no doubt that you are correct in everything you have said

Chip

iTrader: (3)

At NO point has anyone said Karl should have to pay 200 pounds to give advice EVER on PF

He has been asked to pay 200 pounds if he wishes to use his company logo in his sig, but he has not been asked for 200 pounds to give advice.

Hope that clears that confusion up!


Im personally of the opinion that his advice is worth more to the forum than 200 pounds is anyway, but thats a seperate issue!

JonnyBravo

Couldn't agree more mate

COMEDY DAN

I think you have misunderstood mate.

The observation was simply stating that you wanted your profile deleting due to not being able to have your own name in your own sig

and your own name in your title (which is true), but now you are needed to clear up a point that you have hastilly jumped onto to explain your point of view, "you dont recommend long studding" and the reasons why, which you wouldnt have been able to do if your profile was deleted would you? ? Which is what I was saying!

The reason it comes in handy is for this very reason, to explain your views so people arent left thinking you are a turkey from the information being posted by someone who hasnt really got a clue and is making you look stupid. (until you clear things up with your valid view on a topic, whicg is needed and helpful AS I ALSO SAID)

Nothing wrong with my post at all mate, no cheap shots! Just saying how it is, stating the facts just as you do, nothing wrong with the that...!!!!

No worries you refrain and I will stand in the corner while the rest of the class suffer.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

This is one of the reasons i have nothing to do with PF anymore, you wake up and find out people that you class as friends have been slagging you off on the internet for no apparent reason, and EVERYTHING is all your fault!! Its somewhat depressing at times. "lol"


Me? What have i done? Why bring me into your arguments last night Karl? I have done nothing to you at all other than introduce a rule that NO TRADERS AT ALL (not just NMS) can have a trade name or siggy unless they wish to suport the site financially. No different to ITV or even Fast Ford magazine, you cant advertise on or in there for free either can you. In fact, i bet your local 30p newspaper with 2000 readers wont let you advertise for free and PF would be MASSIVELY cheaper than said gossip rags that would get you absolutely sod all work. In fact, its cheaper than all the national magazines too. What is so unusual about that rule that its worth slagging me personally off for?


Then surely you dont need to advertise your business personally then... Everyone will knwo you as Karl Norris anyway, so why not take that as a name instead of just karl? Wheres the problem?



How do you work that out exactly? Given the fact no extra rules have been implemented since the change was made to stop the fake traders? Nothing has changed around here bar the trading rule to my knowledge, unless something changed since i left, but i doubt it very much.


My name again! Since you bring me into it, lets hear what you think i see so differently to you? I am a UK trader too and have been established longer than you, so surely my views as a UK trader would be very similar to your own?



I thought you were classing your name and a business as a gain earlier? If its not going to gain you, why do you have so much problem with not being able to display the business name in your siggy? If its about recognition, whats wrong with Karl Norris as a username?



I am sure you know i would. How come you have never mentioned your problem with PF in any of our very long phone calls putting the world to rights? Seems your the one actually only complaining from behind your keyboard, i am just responding using the same communication medium as you contacted me in. Feel free to pick the phone up today or drive up if you want to air your views any other way, kettles always on and teh 2 dip rule will still apply.


I would love to hear the reasons as i am sure i speak for everyone who has known you a long time when i say that what you are doing seems so out of character for you and its a shame mate.

indycos

iTrader: (2)

thanks for fucking that one up for us dude i was looking forward to the 200 block to 205 block in comparison thing from Karl

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

All my big power engines (since 1998) have been long-studded and as you know they get used and abused quite possibly more than most (track days, top speed runs, high mileage etc) and NOT ONCE have I suffered from a head-gasket failure.

However, I believe this down to the fact that my engine tuner carries out this conversion only using the best available parts, and does not skimp in any way. In fact, in all the time Harvey has long-studded engines, he has only seen TWO failures (that's HUNDREDS of engines), which was down to two faulty gaskets (not a bad failure rate). His exact comment has been, "A rod will come through the side of the block before the head-gasket fails if done properly". In my own experience, this is what I have found as well.

I have no idea why John's two long-studded engines have failed, as I do not know how these have been carried out or what materials have been used - all I can do is comment from my own experience of this.

FYI, my current engine is 10 studded.

RS500/364

Mike a question for you as i was told yeasterday
not to long stud a 205 block but
RS500 205s and 200 are fine have you ever been told this
and it was by a tuner !!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You physically can't long stud a 205 block. The only reason I would imagine you can do this to the RS500 205 block, is due to it's design being similar to that of the later 200 blocks, enabling it to be carried out.

RS500/364

Just thought i would say that and you confirmed it cheers !!
can i go on your stand £7.50 want to save the £2.50 on sunday lol
you on the track ?

foreigneRS

there's a difference between an engine builder and a tuner in many cases - although luckily on PF we have members who are very well qualified in both areas

personally, if there is going to be a weak link on an engine, i would rather it be the head bolts that need periodic replacement than the block

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

All tickets are sold.