XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Does Stu map Megasquirt?

Stavros

not generally i dont think.

his worry is prob same as most- substandard DIY built ECU/Loom causes car to fuck tiself, and his mapping tries to get blamed.

if he could be sure ECU and loom was built right, im sure he would have no problem with mapping it at all.

Alex_86

iTrader: (2)

regarding to the Skoda that people think its rubbish
well if i had chose between a Skoda or a Ford, i deff taken the Skoda
as the Fix Or Repair Daily car surly gone need some fixing or repairing as soon as i leave the store


then when you havent tested MS then you should basically dont say its crap!
as you havent tested it!

AlexF

hence why I do... but only if you sign my disclaimer no seriously!

mad dog younge

well i have a mk 2 festa 2ltr zetec t34 charge cooler with ms v3 i was going to map it my self but found that richie at motoscope in northalerton is fooking mint and clued up with ms so wait till i get mine sorted and i will let you know

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

A bit harsh, it is far from crap.
MegaSquirt has far more variables than a "normal" after market ecu and requires more time to fully understand it and all the different levels of software. Your mappers are probably too lazy to even give it a look.

Mark

tiny

Im going ms, ill let u know what its like with a direct back to back comparison

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Is it as good as Autronics? didnt think so

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

I'd use V3 as the features are as good as any other system, any system could fail like any electrical item does.

Garage19

Maybe not..... but Autronics is 6-7 x the price!

Its certainly as good as say Omex.

PGT

have never tried MS myself but have about 20 years experience with diy electronics in respect of home built amplifiers / model train controls / radio control etc and generally the diyers fall into 2 categories: 1) those who emulate commercially available products and then say stuff like 'how come the commercial product costs xxx when i built this for a fiver?' or 2) they push the boundaries of the technology and say 'why product xxx didn't have this option ive developed is beyond me as its simple to add in for no additional cost'.

there has rarely been a third option in these circles but having seen a few MS systems diy built, to generalise and say that they are 'crap' or anything similar is simply ignorant. dont know what the potential for these systems to replace any of the the commercial systems in terms of performance potential is, but dissmissing them as rubbish by virtue of their build quality is ironic given that fords are built by erm.... ford.

often in the above 2 scenarios the objective was to highlight commercial shortcomings and highlight the abilities of the diyer but MS brings a new angle to the game and having seen some very well built MS systems , build quality need not be an issue particularly since commercially built options aboun

cant comment on the reason why tuners dont use it though

neilm

The one thing most have missed is if a tuner is an OMEX dealer or an Emerald dealer they also make money on the ECU itself along with the ancillaries when they sell that to the customer on top of the charge for mapping.


With a Mega Jolt / Squirt there is no margin to be made, only on the mapping time.

The risk is high, as we saw last week, some gimp took their megasquirt to Northampton Motorsport, who did a running in map for them, as well as sorting out loads of other problems on the car, sent the customer off to do his 1000 miles and then come back for the final mapping session.

Customer doesnt go back, reads forums or takes advice from others and then comes on here slagging off Northampton Motorsport, when they hadnt even been given the opportunity to finish the job...


Most tuners wont want that sort of flack...


BUT this doesnt mean the system itself is bad, support is world wide and the amount of people developing code for it is probably far more than any of the the main stream manufacturers have working on their kit.


I sold a Megajolt I had to a guy who rallies and its been fine.


Fair play to the like of Garage 19 & Alex F who are attempting to tame the beast and are prepared to put up with the risk....

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

If they just changed the bloody name it would be a good start

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Depending on the skills of the person building and tweaking the code on it, its potentially more powerful.

For a start, you cant have traction control on SM4 for example, and on SM2 you have a big list of features but can only choose half a dozen of them, and there is NOTHING you can do about these limitations on Autronic but on MS if you have the time and skills, it can do ANYTHING that is possible with electronics as you have the source to develop from.


So it depends on what you mean by "is it as good?"

MarK4

how does the MS compare to gotec?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Gotec is built for you with automotive grade components and limited to what the manufacturers set it to do.

MS isnt, same as comparing it to any other commerical ecu.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

A very intersting thread this

Take off your blinkers for 2 seconds, (No diss to that brand of ecu)

You will probally reply with some dig at me but thats to be expected.

OldDan

It'd be nice to hear what Stu @ MSD thinks too, as well as other mappers on here?

AlexF

Megajolt is a FANTASTIC bit of kit and there is NOTHING to touch it for ignition only control!

I have sold loads and loads of these and seen Zero failures!!!

That being said its not going to appeal to many on here but the Mini Turbo and R5GTT guys love it

alex

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Stu thinks that the production standards are too variable for him to want to put his name to a car using it.

He has said that on here before.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Will AlexF ever trade legally on here ??


Chip,
Whos to say the MS is any more/less reliable that an old L8 on an old loom
that seems to work perfectly when mapped.
That could fail at any time.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

An L8 is made for automotive use after thorough professional testing that it can handle the environment.

But I do agree they can and do still go wrong, but at least you know they have been soldered correctly and use the correct grade of components etc.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Proud to be gay, but ashamed to be in the motor trade

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Chip-3Door,

Is he gay ?? PMSL

Fair enough but the user usually chooses his own engine components
so you could add that argument for any part on the car. !

I am of the opinion, tuners use what they feel comfortable with or have
financial ties with or the fact they have loads of base maps and no learning
curves which makes their life a whole lot easier
Found this out from my experiences in the market LOL.
The hardware reliability factor although relevant is a small reason IMO.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Tuners map what is financially viable to map, that is certainly true, and all the factors your mention make it more likely to be viable, if you are a cossie tuner and choose to not map L1/L6/L8 you are limiting your market a lot, if you chose not to map MS you arent, so given a finite amount of time then all things being equal it would make more sense to specialise in the L8 etc.

Also thuogh people with a ecu that cost them 80 quid to build dont want to spend big money on mapping generally IME, and ECU's that are home made are more likely to fail and lead to a bad reputation for the tuner (who isnt at fault) so its a perfectly valid decision to make IMHO

AlexF

Nope peobably not - I looked at projected sales vs cost of advertising

and worked out that for the amount of work I can take on at the moment it doesn't pay


BUT

When I get a workshop that might change

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

AlexF,

Best of luck you tight coont

AlexF

thanks Si,

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Ok, the for the record my take on the situation is this.

Megasquirt is a great system, with almost limitless possibilities and one that is constantly evolving due to its open source command software. I have some experience with it having mapped a few friends cars on it over the years, but would by no means term myself a MS expert.

Will i personally map it in a professional Capacity? No.

The reasons are simple, if not a little unfairly generalised.

Generally speaking, the build quality of your average MS unit is poor due to it being done by the end user himself, and i have experienced various examples of this ECU coming to me with running problems due to an internal electronic component. Many times, this has been as a result of damp, and on 2 occasions its been due to poor soldering to start with, however, i have also experienced many more cars with it running just fine, so dont think i am saying its always poor, it certainly is not.

Its worth bearing in mind that All OE ECUs are waterproofed to enable them to survive in the harsh environment that they have to operate in. You could literally immerse a P8, Bosch or even Mitsubishi Ecu in a bucket or water and it would still run perfectly fine. What do you think your MS would do in a bucket of water?

Now look at the conditions in say, an old fiesta. Windows drenched when you get in them in the morning, some of them have VERY damp carpets, even seats. Would you leave your New Plasma TV in there overnight and then expect to switch it on all damp and it work with no issues, or would you dry it out first? Well, in this example, your MS ecu is the same as the TV, it was NOT designed to be allowed to get damp, let alone wet, nor does the lack of a good resin component cover allow it to withstand the average cars vibration and harshness without a high probability of component connection problems.

Unfortunately, in this industry, everything seems to be blamed on the mapper first, and then other possibilities for teh failure investigated last, and if you discover it was actually the ecu's fault, nobody ever seems to update people with the reality, choosing to leave the mapper with a bad name rather than eat humble pie. I have no desire to be blamed for a car that runs badly due to a badly assembled or maintained ecu when I am perfectly busy mapping other ECU's that dont suffer from such inherent potential pitfalls. Sorry.

AlexF

Very fair points Stu

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thanks Alex, i have elaborated and clarified certain points since you read it pal, so please give it the once over again.

GaryEvo

ive never used ms ecus but have mapped a few vems units

ive never had any probs with them,may be as they are built by a company the standard is higher

foreigneRS

Stu @ M Developments basically as i said on page 1 then

Garage19

This was what i recomended earlier. I have had a chat with rob and he informed me they use the same loom connectors as motec and the the boards are all surface mount technology produced by a proper manufacturer.

How have you found it at controlling big injectors at idle? Can you get them to run close loop smoothly on VEMS?

Is there any other issues with it?

I know the 200sx boys really like them and quite a few BMWs in the states run it.

I will be ordering one shortly to try on Cols 3dr.

His old MS will be swapped out and used to control the four extra injectors on his turbo busa project.

AlexF

Still sounds right to me