Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Before I finally settled on my current engine format, I seriously investigated the route of dual charging the engine. My remit to Harvey has always been ultimate response, so a plan was hatched to bolt on a super-charger that would run on the engine from idle to 4000rpm, whereby a large turbo would take over the supply duty, to have the best of both worlds.

He figured out everything required from scratch to get it to work AND fit in the engine bay and a suitable electronic clutch control was sourced from a Mercedes (which would be controlled by the T6 to disengage at the point the turbo was making enough boost to get a smooth switch-over), along with a K-gate to allow the switch in flow to the engine between the two and we were ready to go.

Unfortunately the program was abandoned due not being able to package a big enough supercharger in the space we had. Disappointingly the one you can see in the picture could not provide the power from idle to 4000rpm to make it worth while. All the bigger ones that could provide this, were simply too big to fit on the side of the engine .

Stavros will now remember why I was so interested in those superchargers that had variable speed gearing on them to enable them to provide LOTS of boost low down, but able to tail off at higher rpm to stop the supercharger from exploding . Unfortunately, this Russion technology doesn't seem to have filtered to the after-market even now .

It would have had the best of both worlds - response and outright power, without the parasitic loss of constantly connected supercharger, which would have disengaged by 3500-4000rpm. Just thought peeps might like to see that things do go on behind the scenes .

maxest

iTrader: (1)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im still considering this for my nova, where I have more or less unlimited space

Stavros

still dont think the k-gate and disengaging it is a good idea at all all things considered, esp the switchover point.

hasnt this already been done on a cossie once before (was in CCC) and plenty other cars? wouldnt call it a great idea like he just invented it or anything, lol.

v.cool tho

Tank Mike

just sell the kit for cossie transit owners. theres plenty of room in them fuckers

Rick

what about compound charging the engine with 2 turbos, was that considered?

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Is there no sprag clutches avaliable that would disengage themselfs after say 4250 rpm etc? As a lot of aircraft components such as air driven starter motors are constantly driven after they have started the main engine, but over thier start speed the centrifugal clutch disengages and allows the drive to freewheel .



Or how about an electronic viscous drive? the angle of the plates are controlled to vary the drive, so you could have full drive at low RPM, and a quick but progressive tail off over the revs you want? Sure they use this in active diffs etc, and again they are used on aircraft (called CSDU's, constant speed drive units) to drive items that require a constant speed, such as engine driven generators, hydrulic pumps etc

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
The T6 could have handled the switch-over no problem, and Harvey was confident enough in the K-gate.

I didn't say he invented it, as the idea has been around ever since the internal combustion engine , he just made it work VERY well. In the end, as I said, it was only abandoned due to the size of the supercharger required to provide sufficent boost in the rpm range we wanted, would have required a MUCH larger space than we had .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If I do, I was planning on just blowing THROUGH the charger not even trying to swap over, but the concept of de-clutching it is a good one I reckon.

The M62 charger on mercs was the one I was looking at too (is that the same one mike?) as it has a very simple to operate clutch as standard (its literally just an on/off witch)

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Did you not read my post ? This aspect was already covered and resolved successfully , as a particular supercharged Mercedes uses an electronic clutch that disenagegs at 4500rpm. It would have been no problem to change this point . I went to the effort to type this, the least you could do was go to the effort of reading it .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I assume if I phone him up to ask about it, I will get told to get fucked cause he doesnt give away research secrets, and the same from you?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Spot on Chipmeister (about the type ) .

You'll have to try phoning him for the other info .

Stavros

no it hasnt been around since the internal combustion engine

first supercharger design came about 20years after that, and first turbo design came 30years after

and tho i dunno when i bet the first combined one was ever further, way way further along

the switch over problem isnt a mapping issue, its a "suddenly something that was supplying over 250lbft suddently produces nothing" problem.

NEIL A

iTrader: (6)

Very cool mike its ideas like this and the twin turbo that ava did that will be needed to move cosworths forward i think. Its just a pity neither of these projects have been finnished

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

I get you, but why not have a different drive ratio? with a high 'charger to crank ratio, the CSDU idea would mean you could rag the fuck out of it low rpm, and tail it off as you go higher up the RPMS, yet not let the charger overspeed and throw itself to bits. Also, don't forget a sprag clutch in use will drag for a bit and will also give a tail off rarther than a on/off operation

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Begging PM sent Mike

Stavros

just compound charge it chip, at least thats proven to work properly, and a damn sight less complex.

need a bigger intercooler than usual to cope with the charge temps, and obv the losses from running the charger is always apparent, but people seem to forget having a tiny exhaust housing for half decent spool saps more power than that, and thats something you can do without on tihs setup, infact its not uncommon for boost to always be higher than pre turbo back pressure, good for power and also making the engine suprisingly det resistant.

thats what id do anyhow.

hell, i had all the bits to do it, then i remembered "why fuck about trying to make a small engine act like a big one, im not building the car to any rules, i should just buy the big one and stop wasting money"

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Steve, TBH I would probably be better off just fitting the 42R I have lieing around, and then use nitrous as antilag, its actually a far better solution than a supercharger really!

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Thing is, how many bottles of Nos will you use before the charger becomes the cheaper option? How much is Nos to buy at the moment?

Stavros

thats why i always shyd away from that, its fine on the drag strip, but as a car getting used a lot, itd cost a fortune.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You would spool it up inside of 2 seconds on 100bhp jets im positive.

So it would cost hardly anything, especially as in "normal driving" you wouldnt even bother to use the nitrous, you would just accept the lag.

GARETH T

i dont see the point of it mike,,, you would only use the supercharger in 1st gear if your gear ratios are correct for the engine

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

How about a small turbo sat on its own, with its own fuel injector in a combustion pipe between the compressor and turbine? - Constant boost, fed into the other turbo or just into the intake via the I/cooler etc, no need for a turbo in the exhaust blocking things up then - bit noisy and hot and probably highly dangerous, but how cool would a constant 30psi with NO lag and no exhaust restriction? Just have a CO2 starter bottle to spin it up before it self sustains

Stavros

how about a small nuclear ractor in the boot and a pack of wild horses tied to the front towing eye

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

all it is is anti-lag with 100% injector duration

Disabled Account

Mike, how about ................

You change the thread title to:

"Just to show that UK tuner's try to COPY great ideas..."

GARETH T

easy to make

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_LIQsXsNvTg

Andreas

Small problem with being behind a horse while travelling at high speed.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZoym...elated&search=

Stavros

nah, unles you do it for real, you do this, you ALL gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11687nVdzdk

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

awsome

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Just waiting for someone to pipe up saying that their tuner had already had that idea but rejected it because of unknown reliability or something like that.... wait for it.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

10/10 for the idea Mike.

GARETH T

i tried it,, but i didnt know how reliable it was going to be
__________________________________________________ __________________

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Doug,
Yes there are just hundreds of supoercharged / turboed Cossies running around that have solved all the issues associated with this set up .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

My car is used as much on the road as on the track, so would have been having your cake and eating it scenario, as I could have had a huge turbo that didn't make good boost until 4500, and have the bottom end filled by the super-charger (this was the plan ).

In the end I compromised with a reasonably large turbo, the Mountune roller-barrells and shortening the gearing.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

so, basically you are saying it is perfect bar supercharger speed Vs Boost pressure and overspeed problems?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Nice if it can be acheived but the cossie bay is tight for space and good on
you for having a go at something different.


Nitrous would be easier and cheaper IMO, but not as bling I suppose




However as for the title of this thread.....


Just to show that UK tuner's do have GREAT ideas...

It wasnt Harveys idea in the first place

Thats no lie either

Fiecos Dan

intresting.